Jesse Frost: The Living Soil Handbook | The No-Till Market Garden Podcast

Posted on September 22, 2021September 22, 2021 by brianjpombo@hotmail.com

Subscribe: RSS | More

Take both feet and jump right in!

It’s clear Jesse Frost is well informed on gardening and things he’s passionate about. But for he and his wife Hannah Crabtree to take that passion and turn it into not only a way of life but a way of making a living is truly impressive.

Join us for some fabulous insight, from getting a start in farming, to what it takes to get your book published.

Oh, and did we mention Jesse’s terrific No-Till Market Garden Podcast and the quality information you can get from listening…all for free!

Check out the links below for more info on Jesse and Hannah’s Rough Draft Farmstead, to No-Till Growers Podcasts and Jesse’s new book published with Chelsea Green Publishing called, The Living Soil Handbook.

The Living Soil Handbook – https://www.notillgrowers.com/livingsoilhandbook/d9z5gkf1bbnhu0w5xxb3trngiqhwgo

No-Till Growers Podcasts – https://www.notillgrowers.com/home

Podcast on Youtube Also – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLhu5JoRWPgEGDoUFfQHTPQ

Rough Draft Farmstead – https://roughdraftfarmstead.com/

Show Notes

From Wine to Farming: My Start in No-Till Farming with Bugtussle Farm to Starting Rough Draft Farmstead
Type of Vegetables We Grow at Rough Draft Farmstead
How We Found Our First Customers
Why Being Certified Organic Was A Big Move For Us
Keeping No-Till Growers Podcast Accessible For All
New Book: Living Soil Handbook with Chelsea Green Publishing
Positive Response Since The Books Been Launched
How We Started The No-Till Market Garden Podcast
How To Find No-Till Growers Podcast
Big Following on YouTube
Why We Choose the keyword “No-Till”
What I Like Best About Farming & Podcasting
Being Open to New Ideas In Farming & Media
Happy Life: Importance of Family and Relationships
My Advice to Farmers

Transcription

Brian: How did you start your podcast?

Jesse: Originally, I started on my cell phone with a call Recorder an app that journalists will be familiar with. And my audio wasn’t great.

I recorded it in our cooler for our vegetables, like our walking cooler. And also we had two young kids and it was the only place I could go to do it. And it kind of evolved from there.

You know, we’re going into our fourth season this fall, each season has gotten a little better and gotten a little bit better at interviews and more comfortable.

But the beauty of podcasting, like, I think that when you’re a curious person, it really fills that need for you to just dive into things.

Podcast Intro: If you’re someone who refuses to go along to get along, if you question whether the status quo was good enough for you and your family.

If you want to leave this world better off than you found it and you consider independence a sacred thing.

You may be a prepper, a gardener, a homesteader, a survivalist, or a farmer or rancher, an environmentalist or a rugged outdoorsman.

We are here to celebrate you whether you’re looking to improve your maverick business or to find out more about the latest products and services available to the weekend rebel.

From selling chicken eggs online, to building up your food storage or collecting handmade soap.This show is for those who choose the road less traveled the road to self-reliance for those that are living a daring adventure, life off the grid.

Brian: Jesse Frost lives in central Kentucky, where he runs Rough Draft Farmstead with his wife Hannah Crabtree. Frost is also the host of the No-Till Market Garden Podcast and the author of, The Living Soil Handbook: The No-Till Growers Guide to Ecological Market Gardening.

Jesse frost, welcome to The Off-the-Grid Biz Podcast.

Jesse: Well, thank you so much for having me, Brian. I’m excited to be here.

Brian: This is real fun. So tell us a little bit about what it is that you do?

Jesse: Well, I do a lot of different things. But my primary vocation is farming.

As you said, a small-scale farm in central Kentucky with my wife, Hannah. We are three-quarters of an acre no-till vegetable production. And that is my full-time gig.

That’s what we do for a living.

But I also do a number of other things we run No-Till Growers with my partner Jackson Rolett, he co-founded it with me, we think of it as sort of an aggregate of information where we are trying to dig up as much growing information about no-till market gardening that exists and that we can sort of create ourselves and try and seek out.

We’ve created several different offshoot podcasts from you know, I host the No-Till Market Garden podcast, as you said, but we also have Collaborative Farming Podcast that’s hosted by Jackson.

We also have Winter Growers Podcast, that’s hosted by Clara Coleman, daughter of Eliot Coleman.

Jennie Love does the No-Till Flowers Podcast.

And then we do a weekly live show with Josh Satin, who some people may be familiar with his work through YouTube, but he posts an every other week live show on our YouTube channel.

So we do a lot of stuff. It’s a lot about just getting that information out there. We try and keep it free and we are kind of a different business model in that way.

But we try and make sure that anybody can access our information.

And yeah, it’s a number of different things that we do. But they’re all very exciting and very fun for me.

Brian: How did you end up at this point, where did this all start?

Jesse: So it all kind of started with my interest in farming and agriculture, which started probably about 12 or 13 years ago, when I was actually working in wine in New York City.

I worked in wine retail, and we specialized in really small scale really like unique wines, very niche stuff like it was kind of at the beginning. At that point, it was kind of in the middle of the natural wine craze. And I really loved those wines.

I really loved this really funky kind of, you know, sometimes effervescent, sometimes really cloudy wines that just tasted so vibrant and so alive to me.

I got obsessed with the people that made them and I kind of started studying viticulture, and I went in would visit winemakers in Europe and really enjoyed seeing their love of the land.

For a brief moment I kind of thought about being a winemaker. But I kind of knew just deep down that wasn’t really my thing. I knew that I would not really be that all that interested in, you know, making just one product.

So I moved that idea to just doing vegetable farming because I love vegetables I love you know cooking that’s kind of also in my background.

And so I moved from New York City back to my home state of Kentucky and found an apprenticeship here.

That’s where that started.

So the apprenticeship was a biodynamic farm called, Bugtussle Farm in southern Kentucky. I learned everything there like just all the different techniques for kind of minimal tillage and, you know, really responsible tillage with cover crops and those sorts of things.

We did rotational grazing, we did herbs, we did livestock, all sorts of different livestock. We did chickens and turkeys and everything.

So that was a really great immersion into agriculture because I didn’t have much of a background. I didn’t have any of a background in it. My family is not agricultural, at least not in any recent history.

So, from that I met my wife there, she was the other intern in my second year, Hannah, she and I, you know, decided after our first year interning together, or her first year, my second, that we would start a farm.

So we started a farm. And one of the things that we knew we wanted kind of from the beginning was to reduce our tillage and sort of figure out different techniques for how to manage, you know, crops without tillage to reduce our cultivation needs, and to increase our water holding capacity and have better performance with the crops, like all of the things that no-till purports to do.

So we started kind of investigating these ideas, and they’re just was not a lot of information out there about it. That was one thing that we really discovered was that there’s just this complete lack of information about the technical side of managing a small scale farm, you know, high production, small scale vegetable farm without tillage was like, there was just not much out there.

That’s where No-Till Growers kind of came into it is that I had this realization that like, I wasn’t gonna be able to find the information I needed, I was gonna kind of have to dig it up.

If I was going to do that, I was just going to call people and have conversations with people who I knew were doing very interesting things in the no-tillage world. Try and, you know, record those conversations and share them as a podcast.

So that’s where that was sort of born out of.

And then No-Till Growers kind of grew from that.

Brian: Well, that’s fabulous.

So what type of vegetables do you grow on your farm?

Jesse: We do mixed production, we focus a lot on a handful of crops, garlic, cherry, tomatoes, lettuce, green onions, beets, carrots, those are kind of our main products.

But we do you know, sweet potatoes, we do a little bit of, we always grow some things that we love for ourselves and for our family. So we’ll always grow a little bit of sweet corn, will always grow sweet potatoes, winter squashes, we do a big mix of stuff.

But really, what pays the bills is those first crops, those other crops are both sustenance, but also, you know, crops that we enjoy growing and gives us some good biodiversity in our soil and in our crop rotations.

And it’s fun to have a diversity of crops like it’s, you know, we don’t want to just be a lettuce farm, because that’s really easy. It’s easy for us to sell a lot of lettuce, it’s easier for us to grow a lot of lettuce.

But we want that diversity. It’s good for the soil, and it’s good just for ourselves and for our family.

Brian: Absolutely.

How did you find your first initial customers after, so you got your farm going, you started producing, where’d you find your first customers?

Jesse: So the first model, I think it’s important to start out there, the first model we used was the CSA, you know, for the listeners who most are probably familiar, but the community-supported agriculture, just being that subscription to farm subscriptions.

And so essentially, that’s where we started.

We started a lot with family and friends, which I think is pretty, you know, for small scale, farmers getting off on their own, especially who are doing in your home, they end up a lot of times with family and friends is their kind of for supporters.

That was great because they’re much more forgiving when you make mistakes. And you know, you’re going to, especially in your first years, and CSA is really complicated, like, it’s a very complicated style of growing, and marketing, it can be really great.

But you know, you need to, there’s a lot of different things to keep in mind for mitigating your risk. And the stress because there’s nothing I just I can I still feel in my stomach, when I think about what it feels like knowing that you’re coming up on a week or two or three weeks, where you just don’t have a lot in a row, like the gardens not bouncing back, you know, you’ve had a drought or you’ve had flooding or whatever it is.

You know that things are not going to be where you need them to be on time and that is so stressful. So mitigating that like is a really big part of it.

But yeah, in terms of our customers, that’s where we started, then we kind of moved on from that to we started sort of hitting the streets and just like passed out flyers, and did a lot of at the time we were doing, you know, we had like an Instagram account. I think we started that pretty early on and so that was helpful to get the word out.

This is probably 2012 that we really started reaching out beyond our or maybe 2013.

And when we started kind of reaching out beyond our just like friends groups.

Yeah, we just kind of would go to farmers markets and set up like if we had to produce early on in the spring or maybe late in the fall before the next year, we’d go and set up and just like do CSA fairs as well, like that’s the thing, where you go and try and meet customers.

So we would do as much as we could to just get the word out and meet people. And for the most part, we were able to hit our budget to an extent.

The difficulty for us really, in the beginning years, wasn’t so much getting the customers it was getting consistent crop production. But I don’t want to sort of just stumble by that because it can be really hard for some people, depending on where you live.

Rural areas tend to be really hard to get customers to buy, you know, especially for us like now we’re certified organic. We’ve always grown organically.

I think it can be really tough to get customers in rural areas, you know, to spend a little bit extra, although in some ways it’s getting easier. Some people are more aware of what they’re eating increasingly and wanting to know where their food comes from, but that, you know, can be a challenge.

Brian: Absolutely. Well, that makes sense.

So are you basically getting customers from the same places that you’ve already mentioned? Where’s the top place that people are finding you now?

Jesse: So I should describe it.

Okay, so basically, we went from the CSA model to a more farmer’s market-based model. Excluding last year, last year, we were going to stop the CSA, but with COVID, when that came into the picture, that obviously, we just restarted our CSA, and that was all of our customers for previous years, word of mouth is really effective with that, you know, when and if we wanted to grow our CSA.

We often just asked our current CSA members if they would spread the word and that was very helpful.

We stopped doing the kind of hitting the streets and asking everybody and it got it can be hard, though it can be hard to fill those CSA is that you once you have your CSA goal, and you really want to deliver on it.

But what happened now, like what’s happened since then, and why we kind of were at least going into 2020, expecting to drop our CSA and why we were able to drop it this year, in 2021, is that we, you know, essentially decided that the farmers market fills that need for us and we can use it in a diversity of ways.

In terms of finding customers, the biggest thing that we did was certified organic, nothing has gotten us an instant customer base, nearly as quickly as certified organic. Essentially, you know, you go to farmer’s markets, and I don’t know how common this is out in the west, but it’s certainly common here where you see growers who care and who, grow good food and don’t spray or don’t spray very often, or whatever it is.

But they don’t have any proof of that like there’s nothing about they can, they can write stuff on their signs and whatever. But if they that symbol, that certified organic symbol for all of its faults is a really effective marketing tool.

As soon as you put that certified organic sign up on your table, customers will come to your booth who maybe would have walked by before because they didn’t know who you were, it just eliminates that conversation of, do you spray what kind of you know because that’s a really awkward thing to put on the customer to ask.

And it’s often they just want to know that you’re taking care of your food and growing it in the right ways and not treating it with chemicals.

They’re not growing it with, you know, chemical fertilizers and all the things that they’re trying to avoid in their diets. So I think that putting that certified organic sign behind you really just answers those questions, and it takes all that stress off of them.

Brian: Oh, that’s great. That’s really good.

So you have the farm, you have this business that was growing, and then you started No-Till Growers. And that’s become a secondary community almost that you’ve had set up.

And you said that you attempt to offer as much available for free as possible. Why don’t you tell us a little more about that model and how you came about that?

Jesse: Yeah, it’s a very unique model.

It’s sort of something that we’re still trying to figure out exactly how it works. But it requires a diversity of revenue streams, to have a lot of creativity and a lot of sacrifices, in the beginning, to get it going.

But essentially, the idea is, is it’s somewhat of a nonprofit that it’s actually a for-profit that operates somewhat like a non-profit recently got a grant from Southern SARE.

We also do donations not only just general donations from the public, but we do a Patreon account, our Patreon account is the lifeblood of our operation.

It’s five or 600 people there right now who donate every month, and then $2 increments, $5 increments, we have a few that in that $10, $15, $20 range, but most the majority of them are that to $2 to $10. And that is huge.

I mean that that’s an enormous amount of income for us.

And then other things that we’ve done, we do fundraisers, like we’ll print hats, and sell those we do those you know, once a year we’ll do a big printing and sell those and that’s a revenue stream for us.

I’ve recently published, The Living Soil Handbook and we’ve been selling that so that’s published by a publisher that’s through Chelsea Green, but we’ve been you know in the author anytime you publish a book you have the option of selling it through your site and we chose to sell my book through No-Till Growers as a revenue stream for No-Till Growers.

So I still get a kickback royalty from the publisher but the majority of the profits it’s almost like a bookstore go to No-Till Growers, so that’s encouraged quite a few people to order it from No-Till Growers, instead of maybe Amazon. Where in a situation like No-Till Growers, you know, that that money is going towards building more content.

And so when I said giving it all away for free, we don’t keep anything behind a paywall.

I mean, the book is the closest thing to a paywall that we really have. We have had the Patreon account but we’re not putting up special information there.

People who are Patreon members know that they know that they’re not necessarily getting special treatment. They’re supporting us by giving it away for free so that anybody can access it.

Because there’s a lot of inaccessibility in terms of, you know, starting a farm is expensive in the early years, you don’t have hundreds of dollars to pour into your education or 1,000s of dollars. Sometimes depending on the resources, it can be very expensive.

So we try and just make it extremely accessible. Because we feel like that’s the fastest the most rapid way to get the information out. That’s the most rapid way to get it to the most amount of to disseminate it to the most amount of people and to just grow the movement faster and create healthier food and healthier environment and all the things that matter to us.

Brian: Oh, that’s great.

Tell me a little more about the book, who’s idea was it to write the book, how did you go about doing it? Tell me a little bit about that process?

Jesse: Yeah, I’ve been a writer for a long time and it’s something I’ve been passionate about. I’ve really spent a lot of time as a writer, studying the book industry, you kind of have to understand the publishing industry a little bit to be able to get your foot in the door to get somebody to want to publish you.

So I started a long time ago, assuming this was years and years and years ago that I started studying this stuff and looking at agents and all those things.

But as I got into agriculture, as you niche down, it gets a little easier in some ways.

So as I got agriculture and later on, like when I decided to write the book, because I felt like there was a need for it and use that I could feel, and I can talk about that in a second.

But basically, we go to the publishers who publish in your genre, and in our case, it would be agriculture. And there are several really good ones, and you kind of go through and you pick, the one that you feel like is most fits your personality or fits your goals the most.

And then you follow their guidelines case of Chelsea Green, I had to submit a query letter. Query letters are a very specific thing, when I talked about studying the industry, you kind of have to study the query letter, it’s very, it’s like the most important thing to get your foot in the door.

It’s the elevator pitch of writing. And so you really have to study that and figure out exactly how to do it, well have it edited in practice, right, a bunch of them every idea, you have just write it out like a query letter.

Once you get their interest, once you pique their interest there, if they want to, if they want to publish what you’re writing, then they asked for a proposal.

The proposal includes a bunch of information that they request specifically. And then beyond that, they asked for two chapters. So two already written chapters.

Now, if you’re submitting fiction, for instance, it’s going to go totally different because they want a manuscript. But in the case of nonfiction, they actually want some control over the structure.

So submitting two chapters, you could submit a full manuscript if you had one, I suppose. But, you know, fully finished all the chapters, everything, but if you but generally, you’re going to submit you know, a partial, so two chapters minimum, if you have three, that’s great, too.

But you want to give two really nice chapters, plus all the other information that they request, the bio and, you know, possible sales outlets, and all the various things that they are going to request.

Because not only do they have to like the idea, but they have to know what’s marketable. So you go through that and that’s a big process.

Then you start sitting down with the editor, you get an editor, you get assigned an editor, you start sitting down with that person. And in my case, it was for and Marshall Bradley, she’s amazing.

She’s kind of a legend in the agricultural world. She was amazing. And she and I kind of designed the outline together, we came up with something that I was really excited about.

And we have hammered that out for I guess, it took about nine months of active writing, but it was with all the work that I was doing through No-Till Market Garden Podcast and stuff several years in the making, like just me, kind of thinking about how I wanted to do this book.

A lot of farming books are written from the perspective of a single farm. And I wanted something that was more of a choose your own adventure.

I say that I use that term loosely because choose your own adventure is very specific.

But the idea being that I wanted to say not this is how things happen on my farm. And this is how you know you can do it, I want to show this is how soil works. And this is how you can properly address its needs, no matter where you are.

So that was kind of the idea behind the book is that sort of I wanted it to not context-specific. I didn’t we have a lot of books with and I love them dearly from the north, for instance, from Maine through Canada. And those are great, but those aren’t super helpful always to me down here in Kentucky.

So I wanted something that would be helpful to anybody anywhere. So that’s what I was kind of striving for. And I think maybe that’s that niche that I chose that direction that I chose help to get it published helped get beat the publisher’s interest.

It also, I mean, part of that too, if you’re interested, I’m talking about this in a way for somebody who may be interested in writing a book that you know, you do want to spend a good amount of effort while you’re getting your idea together.

While you’re practicing your query letters and all of those things, you want to spend a good amount of time getting a base from which to work because the publisher needs to know that they can sell the book they need to know that people know who you are.

It is not as big of a deal in agriculture because a lot of the best minds in agriculture don’t have big social media followings or anything like that. But those aren’t bad. I mean, those will help.

Those are little things that may, you know, if you have a good social media following in our case, obviously the No-Till Market Garden Podcast, and our YouTube channel and all the things certainly helped for getting my foot in the door.

But you want those things you want to think about.

Like how can you grow your audience, it’s also good practice, use it, you know, if you’re a writer, right, you got to write all the time. You have to be able to show them that you can finish a book that’s important to a lot of people who want to write a book, but don’t spend a lot of time writing.

I’ve written every day for 17, 18 years. And that’s what I do. I get up every morning and I do it. And I’ve done it for years, and years and years.

That’s not a requisite like lots of people can just kind of start to slowly pick it up and do a decent job. But you’re gonna have to show that you can produce a book at the end of the day.

Brian: Absolutely. After you’ve gotten the book published, what effects have you seen come off of it for No-Till Growers?

For everything else that you’re doing, what are the benefits to having a book like this out there?

Jesse: Yeah, that’s a good question. I like these questions, Brian, this is fun talking about the specifics of the book writing.

So it’s only been out since July 20. So not that long that I think the effects that I’ve seen so far. So we’re recording this on August 9. And the effects that I’ve seen so far.

One, it’s sold really well, which is great. I mean, it shows that the support for what we’re doing is really big. And I think that people have really responded to like, the business model that I described earlier.

It’s genuine, it’s not us, you know, we’re farmers that we want that information, we want to share this information for free because we are seeking it out ourselves. It’s important to us, it affects our business.

I hope that is going to help people who don’t necessarily listen to podcasts or watch YouTube videos, or I think, for us having a diversity of mediums of media, for people who may be different kinds of learners have responded to things differently, or gravitate more towards one kind of medium than another.

This way, they have another option that isn’t just the podcast, because not everybody can listen to podcasts.

I know for one, moms have a hard time with podcasts a lot of times because they are taking care of their children and they’re busy and but maybe at the end of the day, they can sit down even while they’re nursing a baby and read a book. And I know that just from my wife’s experiences.

So maybe that’s an option for somebody like that.

Or somebody who yeah, doesn’t watch YouTube videos, there’s a lot of accessibility issues to with, you know, hearing impaired and those sorts of things who may not be able to listen to podcasts.

So I don’t know. I mean, it was just another option. I hope that it’s able to help people what the response has been and how it’s changed things so far as is maybe too early to say. But it’ll probably I mean, certainly, I will get to present at conferences that I maybe didn’t get to before because of a book.

And this is just speaking in generalities that anybody that produces a book can put the word author behind their name so they can have a wider reach.

Maybe be able to present to different audiences in different places and travel a little bit more if that’s what they’re interested in. That can be great depending on what your field is, and what kind of book you’re writing, and the kind of audiences that you want to reach.

But it’ll also give you an opportunity maybe to yeah, to travel and be able to meet people in person who’d be really interested in what you’re doing.

Brian: That’s really great.

It’s a lot of good background on both the process of getting things ready for the publisher and what a book can do for you. I really appreciate that.

On the same end, I’d like to ask you, how did you start your podcast originally?

Jesse: So I started my podcast, I read some blogs about how to how to do a podcast and they were not it turns out very informative. I didn’t choose wisely.

But I started on my cell phone with a call recorder and app that journalists will be familiar with. And it was not great. It dropped a few calls but I didn’t lose any the first year but it was the audio wasn’t great.

I recorded it in our cooler for our vegetables like our walking cooler, because the sound and also we have two young kids and it was the only place I could go to do it.

So it started really small and rough and rustic and it kind of evolved from there.

Each season, we’re going into our fourth season this fall, and each season has gotten a little better. I’ve gotten a little bit better at interviews and more comfortable.

But the beauty of podcasting like I think that when you’re a curious person, it really fills that need for you to just dive into things because I did journalism for a while, and I really liked journalism, I’ve always liked reading journalism.

And one of the things I loved is, I did a little bit of science journalism. And one of the things I really enjoyed was calling people who’ve spent their entire lives work like 40 years, just working on the one question you have to for like one sentence to be correct.

You know what I mean?

Like you get in, you meet people who’ve just dedicated their lives to like one small portion of what you need answered and it’s really amazing. Like, you just meet these incredible people, they’re so passionate.

They don’t all love talking to journalists, but it’s the ones that are nerdy and passionate and love spreading and sharing their information and are good at science communication, I had so much fun, that is what I wanted to bring in.

That’s what I got excited about when I was calling farmers because it was filled that sort of that love I had of talking to people who were just really into what they do. And it was fully fulfilled.

In the beginning, it was hard to figure out all the technical details, because I’m not particularly savvy when it comes to audio equipment and audio engineering or anything like that. I was definitely very, very low fi.

But it didn’t matter because the content was so good.

Like, the quality of the content is always going to trump… not always, but almost always trump the quality of the sound.

And so, for me, that was what I focused on. I was like, I’m not there yet. I’m not good at the sound part but I’m good at the content quality. So I focused on that.

Because it’s so niche and because it was such an interest in it. I was a little bit surprised, I thought nobody would listen to the podcast, but yeah, since it was such an interest in it, that it resonated. And that was exciting for me.

That kept me going and interviewing more people and improving my audio skills.

And you know, I think it’s okay to start in a rough spot, and not without the best equipment and not exactly know what you’re doing. And kind of you got to figure it, you got to start somewhere.

I think it’s good now, like in retrospect, now since I’ve been doing it, and since podcasting has become more popular, there’s so much more information out there to dig into. So that’s good.

I mean, that’s super, super helpful for, you know, anybody that’s interested, they can watch a lot more videos and read a lot more articles than I could at the time.

Commercial: Okay, let’s take a break from that conversation. I wanted to bring up a question for you, during these crazy times, do you feel like your business is indestructible? Most people don’t?

And if not, the real question is why?

And what can you do to make it as indestructible as possible?

Well, that’s the basis of my new book, 9 Ways to Amazon-Proof Your Business.

Let me talk about what we discussed in the third chapter.

The third way for you to Amazon proof your business, which is be different.

In the third chapter, I go into, really, how do you put yourself out there and be seen as unique, where you really don’t even have competition. And there’s ways of doing this. In fact, I talk about two specific books that you should go out and get.

And these are difficult books to read.

These are fun books, books that will inspire you and give you creative juices necessary to be able to really stand out and be different, you don’t have to be wacky, you don’t have to be outrageous, but you do have to appear different. And if you can appear different from everyone else out there, not only will you not have the competition of amazon.com, you won’t have any competition.

But I also have eight other ways to Amazon proof your business, basically the idea of making it competition proof to even someone as big as Amazon.com.

So if you’d like to get your hands on a free copy of my book, go to AmazonProofBook.com sign up and you will get a free copy and get the chance to purchase a physical copy of it for a special price. And now let’s get back to our show.

And now let’s get back to our show.

Brian: How are most people finding No-Till Growers, is it via the podcast or YouTube or what?

Jesse: Ah, that’s a good question. I mean, we have the biggest following it’s probably on YouTube at about I think we’re just under 60,000 subscribers as we record this.

Instagram has been helpful.

Honestly like, so the name of the book is, The Living Soil Handbook. We almost went with living soil growers as the name of our website. But the reason that we didn’t, the reason that we stuck with the word No-Till is controversial, and it’s kind of confusing as it can be, is because it’s a great keyword.

So a lot of people find us because we chose that word. And we knew that we did it intentionally. We knew that it would come with some amount of pushback because not a lot of people don’t like that term, it rubs people the wrong way sometimes.

A lot of work to try and quell the sort of dogma that can be associated with No-Tillage.

The people who think it’s all or nothing or that any sort of disturbance is bad disturbance and any of those things we’ve or that, you know, you just stop tilling. And that’s the only way to do it like you there’s no transition period, you just have to put down the cloud and move on.

And we’ve tried to sort of temper that idea, that dogma.

So I think that’s helped in the eyes of people who’ve been reluctant to embrace No-Till, as in, we’ve done that intentionally as well to kind of invite them into the fold and invite them to learn into the information that they weren’t gleaning from the world, and that they’re welcome to.

And it also No-Till is often associated with like big farms, like people in grain country think of is No-Till is, is a heavy dose of glyphosate to kill, you know, grass or cover crops and then planted into that, and it’s not necessarily more ecological.

So yeah, I mean, we did have a little bit of an upward battle but that that wording was really important.

Brian: That’s a really great point you make. And it’s one of those that most people don’t spend the time to talk about how the titles of their books or podcasts or the things that they have out there, how their brand name is attracting attention, and just the fact that you understand the nuances of that, I think that’s really important. Really good stuff.

I got another question for you.

What do you like best, what would you say about your business and your industry?

Jesse: On the farming side, or on the No-Till Growers side?

Brian: Pick one.

Jesse: Well, I can probably do both.

I mean, what I like best about farming as an industry is that it’s very open to sharing. And people are very, at least for the moment pretty open to sharing their techniques and their tricks and what they’re doing. And that is, I think a little bit unique to farming, and I see it in cooking too.

But it’s very, you know, in like restaurants, professional restaurants and that sort of thing.

But there’s less of a proprietary feel to it, when people are very open to share what they’re doing. And I think that’s been really helpful to get young growers who need that information and need and maybe don’t have access to the education or didn’t grow up in agriculture, to have access to that information.

So that’s one thing that I really like about the farming side.

And that same thing exists obviously, that’s what fuels the media side, the No-Till Growers side. But what do I like most about that, and that I think that insures industry is interesting because it’s ever-evolving, you know, we were seeing numbers in YouTube views across the board on everybody’s channel going down because tic tock is starting to take a big share. And so there’s this sort of feel and need to kind of always be adapting to that.

In one way, nobody really loves change that much who’s in a business. But in another way, I think it offers up the potential for more creativity.

Because we aren’t staked in one revenue stream like we’re not depending on solely our YouTube profits to get by, that we can be a little bit more flexible. So that’s kind of what I like about the way where we’ve settled ourselves in that industry.

We’re also with that, and this is maybe not necessarily on topic. But we’re also looking at the idea of turning our media company, which is not something I guess I’m just now referring it to it as a media company for you. But that’s really what it is, is his media company, we do a bunch of different podcasts and all the things.

So what we’re looking at, though, is turning it into something that’s more of a cooperative model, and where maybe more of like an owner cooperative, where multiple people have a stake in it so that, you know, the contributors for instance, so that when they’re contributing, they have more incentive to share it, but also that everybody is invested in it a little bit more.

Everybody can earn a little bit more from it from that work. So yeah, we’re looking at more cooperative models for our media company, which I don’t know how many media companies are. There are like that.

But I think it could fit well with what we’re doing with the sort of for-profit business acting like a nonprofit.

Brian: That’s great. That’s really interesting.

I’m interested to see where you end up going with that. If you can change one thing about both the farm and the media company, what would it be?

Jesse: We’ll stay with the business side.

I need to be better with numbers and keeping up with our profitability. I think that I do an okay job, but I do it on the back of a napkin and it’s not like I need better systems for that. So that’s one thing that I would change personally about that side of things.

At large, something that I think the industry needs, is definitely to continue on that path away from dogmatic thinking and to be open to new ideas, and to be to trial things on small, small scale.

I also think that there needs to be like I mentioned earlier, the collaborative farming podcast.

I’d like to see an emphasis on people starting farms together, especially while the land is so expensive. While it’s really hard to access, seeing more people going on farms together and find more models and more systems for that to work.

On the media side, I think that I would like to see people getting creative about reducing paywalls and getting that information out there a little bit better.

I don’t think I see the value of a paywall, and I see the need to some of the products that are behind paywalls are so good, they’re really high quality and obviously, cost money. But figuring out ways to make that more accessible.

I’d like to see more of that, personally. Yeah.

Brian: Oh, that’s great.

If we were to talk about a year from now, let’s say we got back together, and we had you back on the podcast, and we were to look back over the last 12 months.

What would you say would have had to have happen for you to feel happy with your progress, both professionally and personally?

Jesse: Well, everything for me comes down to my family and my relationships.

This is something I’ve emphasized quite a bit in my own work, but just the value of your relationships with people around you is paramount.

I’ve said this on other podcasts, but I think it bears repeating that you know, there are several studies but the biggest study, the Harvard study did this, you know an 80-year study, and it’s still ongoing of Harvard, sophomores and they’ve incorporated all sorts of other people into the fold.

And they’ve been doing this really long study to figure out what people value at the end of life.

What it always comes down to is relationships.

And that to me is something that I’m that I always have in the back of my mind is the value of your relationships throughout your life, not just at the end of your life, but throughout your life, determine your health, at the end of your life, determine, you know, have determined how your happiness, your levels of depression, all of these things.

So that matters as much when you’re in middle age too, as it does at the end of your life.

So that’s what I’m always focusing on thinking about how do I how am I managing those things? With all the other things that I’m doing? Are those things getting managed?

Because at the end of the day, and at the end of life, that’s what really matters.

Brian: Oh, that’s great. That’s good stuff.

What are the obstacles standing in your way of being able to both keep and grow those relationships?

Jesse: I think work is tough. I mean, I think you get, especially because I’m doing full time farming and the media company that you It takes a lot of time. And it takes time out of places where you don’t necessarily have time.

And I’ve asked a lot of my wife over the last few years to get all this up and running, and especially writing the book. And she contributed actually to the book.

She’s a great artist, and she did the illustrations. But it’s a lot to ask.

We have two children and it’s a lot of the workforce with the kids has fallen on her especially while also while we’re building the farm where I’m out doing a lot of the farming stuff.

And we just moved to a new property what I said building the farm, we just moved to a new property last year.

So we moved in December. We still have a lot of infrastructure work to do and it’s put a lot of work on her shoulders.

So being conscious of that is, you know, extremely important to me.

Brian: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

This is The Off-the-Grid Biz Podcast.

So we look at the business side of very different type of businesses that are self reliance base. And so what from your perspective, would you have any advice for other business owners out there just blanket advice that we haven’t already covered?

Jesse: For this specific business, one thing I often recommend and one thing I regret about my own journey to having a sustainable business was that I didn’t spend enough time learning how to farm and I definitely didn’t spend any amount of time learning about the farm business.

I was really interested in the farm and then the homestead life style did not care enough about the business side. But also I didn’t spend enough time on enough farms like I didn’t learn enough techniques from in different styles and different growing methods.

And I think if I could do anything over again, about my journey here, it would be to probably spend another year or two working with another farm just a totally different farm from the farm that I apprenticed on because we basically went from the apprenticeship to our own farm.

And I kind of wish that we’d spent two years just working on somebody else’s farm somewhere in the region, right staying sort of where we want to grow because farming, you know, learning the weeds, learning the diseases, learning the pests, learning the climate, are all really important.

If you know where you want to end up, it’s good to go where you want to, you know, learn to grow where you want to end up.

And not that I didn’t have a great education but that diversity of education, I think would be really important and really valuable to me now.

Brian: Wow, that’s a very unique perspective. I haven’t heard that one before. That’s good.

What could listeners do who want to find out more about Rough Draft Farmstead or the No-Till Growers?

Jesse: Yeah, so NoTillGrowers.com is a great resource we you can find all of our podcasts and all of those things there.

You can obviously listen to those through your podcast apps but we you know, we have all the resources there for you to find individual podcasts that you may be interested in.

And then Rough Draft Farmstead, we do all the requisite social media and we’re on Instagram and we have a website we don’t update the website as much but we update our Instagram and those sorts of things.

Same with No-Till Growers you can find that on all the requisite social media as well. Try and keep it simple. Those are the easiest places to find us.

And then like I mentioned earlier, there’s the No-Till Growers YouTube channel if you just go to YouTube and look up No-Till Growers, you should find the videos that we put up weekly we put up a like I said. And twice a month we do the live show with hosted by Josh Satin. That’s every Tuesday at 8pm Eastern Standard Time.

Every other Tuesday rather and yeah, so those are the best places to find us I think.

Brian: Hey, Jesse Frost, thanks so much for being on, The Off-the-Grid Biz Podcast.

Jesse: Well, thank you so much for having me Brian, it’s been a blast.

Brian’s Closing Thoughts: We first started going out and finding people to interview for Off-the-Grid Biz, close to three years ago. And in all that time, I’m always amazed by the different types of people we keep running into, and the types of interviews, and the directions that these interviews go.

And this one with Jesse was no different. It was no different from the fact that it was completely different from everything else we’ve ever done. And it was a lot of fun.

We got into a lot of different areas, and different concepts that you won’t hear on any of the previous episodes.

So a couple of these things that he brought up this idea of going against the concept of having a paywall, people needing to subscribe in order to get content.

Now, they are having ways to be able to make money but they’re not just holding all the content back, they’re trying to put as much of that content forward, which is a really neat way of looking at it.

But also he has built into his farming, business subscriptions, and other sorts of types of money-making activities that you wouldn’t normally see with that style of business.

So there’s so much ingenuity and so many different ways of thinking about the same issue that Jesse and his team are kidding here. It’s just really, really neat.

His conversation about how the No-Till concept, and how that term has been used through the years and misunderstood or misused and to the point to where just calling themselves the No-Till Growers for the podcast and so forth.

It paints them a certain way with some people, but on the same end, it gets them attention they wouldn’t have had otherwise.

So it starts that conversation even though it’s not necessarily the most perfect way to be able to start it. And that was a very interesting point of view that he had on that.

All in all, I love the conversation that we hit on with how to get a query letter to a publisher if you’re wanting a major publisher like Chelsea Green to be able to publish your books. That was really interesting.

We’ve never had anybody go into that type of depth into the process. So that’s one if you’re interested in that area, go back and listen to that.

Maybe even check out the transcription on our website at OffTheGridBiz.com.

I can’t wait to see how Jesse is doing in the future and where all this takes him no doubt in the next year or two. His business is going to look completely different than how it looks right now, if you just look at where he’s been up until now, so that’s going to be really exciting to see.

That’s BrianJPombo.com.

If you or someone you know would like to be a guest on The Off The Grid Biz Podcast, offthegridbiz.com/contact.

Those who appear on the show do not necessarily endorse my beliefs, suggestions, or advice or any of the services provided by our sponsor.

Our theme music is Cold Sun by Dell. Our executive producer and head researcher is Sean E Douglas.

I’m Brian Pombo and until next time, I wish you peace, freedom, and success.

Gianaclis Caldwell – Pholia Farm

Posted on October 12, 2020 by brianjpombo@hotmail.com

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

Subscribe: RSS | More

Some people are just experts in the subjects they excel in.

Others are experts with a joy for helping others and learning from those they interact with.

Tune into this podcast and checkout some of the links below, and it won’t take long to get an impression that Gianaclis is the latter.

Now, I could spend time talking about her love for Nigerian Dwarf Goats here.

Or perhaps her extensive knowledge in Cheesemaking.

Possibly even her 6 nonfiction books or her ventures into fiction writing.

Maybe you’d even like me to spill the beans on her thoughts on speaking and teaching classes?

Well I’m not going to do that, no, not at all.

But if you want to know more about the subjects we cover in this episode, please checkout the links below, because Gianaclis is someone you’ll want to follow and learn from!

Checkout Gianaclis’s books, future classes, consults and more at her website and Facebook page –

https://gianacliscaldwell.com/

https://www.facebook.com/gianaclis/

For more about Pholia Farm – https://pholiafarm.com/

Transcription

Brian: Oregon native Gianaclis Caldwell grew up milking cows, but was lowered to the goat side where she remains a committed devotee. She was a commercial cheesemaker at the Caldwell Off Grid Dairy Pholia Farm for over 10 years.

She now milks her Nigerian dwarf goats just for pleasure. In between writing books in which he has six, speaking, and judging cheese, which she considers the most fun.

Gianaclis Caldwell, welcome to The Off The Grid Biz Podcast.

Gianaclis: Well, thank you, Brian. Thanks for having me.

Brian: Yeah, so why don’t you tell us a little bit about what it is that you do on a regular basis?

Gianaclis: Oh, gosh, it sure varies from day to day. And I was just talking to my mother about people who are drawn to this kind of life really have to be nonlinear, because you just can’t really schedule your day or your week sometimes with animals and farm life and that sort of thing.

So still milking the goats, you were very correct and I do it for pleasure, love having them can just working with the animals. We’ve been breeding the Nigerians now since 2003, and have developed a good name for the breed or as a breeder, I should say, of Nigerian dwarfs. Particularly for strong, long milking animals and with good milk production for that breed.

And that’s, that’s something that’s hard to imagine. And we’re getting older now, of course, as we all do. But it’s difficult to imagine giving up but that process of working on a breed and all those those genetics and all those improvements, and of course, there’s this addiction that every goat person will confess to.

I think about waiting for those babies to come every year. And goat babies are there’s a good reason that they’re all over YouTube and such.

They’re they’re so appealing, and they pretty much stay that way as adults.

So we work our local farm is mostly a pleasure farm now, we do Airbnb with a couple of farms days we have, and that keeps us busy also, but it’s a great income stream for the farm supplement a lot of the feed bills and that sort of thing.

And then working on books, which you said correctly, six nonfiction books and now I’m switching to what was originally my first passion which is trying to and I say that because I want to be humble about this, I write fiction.

And then we also are caring for elderly parents and current with all of that and that’s a wonderful thing to be a part of that certainly is a ongoing team team. Source of activity for us.

Brian: Absolutely.

What drew you to go after work in on a dairy?

Gianaclis: Well, it was a family dairy here growing up so wasn’t a commercial dairy.

But I had been dairy cattle for each leader and just always loved cows and had that typical kind of superior complex that dairy cow people have over goats. And that our youngest daughter was six or seven at the time and she wanted to get be a part of the livestock project.

I was just ready to get a cow again, got to a point in were my husband’s Marine Corps career and our property where we could have a milk animal. Our daughter was too small to handle a cow and I thought, well, maybe I should consider goats.

And so we got a couple of these Nigerian dwarfs because they’re so small that it’s easy for a child to handle and I just assumed it would be, you know, nice thing but fell in love with them.

They’re so much more interactive than a cow is and a little bit more trouble in some ways because they’re such thinkers that they’re so easy on the land and the biggest thing I like about working with them when no milking is they don’t have that long tail to smack you in the face with.

Brian: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Gianaclis: Oh and the fact that the manure isn’t floppy wet all over the place.

Brian: I grew up around cattle also so yeah, I get it. lol

Gianaclis: Dairy cattle or beef?

Brian: Mostly beef.

Gianaclis: Beef. Yeah, yeah. I still love cows that they are definitely a different, different mindset for them and they can afford to be that way when they’re so big, smaller the animal typically the more they have to think their way out of situations and bullying.

Brian: Yeah, absolutely, that’s great.

What led you to jump into kind of the public arena and becoming a public figure and doing writing and everything else?

Gianaclis: When we moved when Vern, my husband was getting ready to retire from the military. We were down in Southern California and we knew we could come back to this piece of the family land that my was left on.

My parents started by 220 acres when they were in high school here in Southern Oregon, back in the 40s. And this piece of it was going to be going to me eventually.

And it didn’t have any power on it yet and just was, it had a large cleared area and it was the early 2000s then and right about when you were starting to hear a lot about goat cheese and small farms and Creameries and I’d already been making cheese at that point and really, really loved the process.

I love processes where it’s a merger of science and art.

We were some things are under your control, some things aren’t and it’s ever changing.

So I very much enjoyed the cheesemaking and we thought about the farmstead creamery and fell into that that little romantic crevice that many people still do. Which isn’t a bad thing, but it being a such a romantic thing to do, and a way to come back to this land and be closer to our parents.

And all that was true. It was great, really loved the whole process.

It was all consuming, though.

At that point, when we decided to move back here, I’d been doing fine art for many years. And that was my focus of what I did. I did have solo shows and just loved thinking art. And I had this idea that I would still be able to do that.

It rapidly became evident that I took the time to make art, I would be taking away from work that needs to be done here at the farm. And somebody else would have to do that. I couldn’t feel comfortable with that.

Writing, nonfiction. When it became obvious that after we got started, there were many people out there that wanted that knowledge how to get started in a small scale creamery, and how could they do it and you start getting calls and emails and people wanting your time.

I thought all maybe this would be a good opportunity to try to write a book, write a book, take the time to do that it would be a resource for people, then I would learn a lot.

And it would just be something that meshed in with what we were doing. I wrote a proposal and it was picked up by Chelsea Green, which has been one of my main publishers, and I love them and what they do.

And that just became an addictive process because as with cheesemaking, it’s a process by the research, there’s a lot of growing as far as having people read and criticize and taking those criticisms to heart as like thank you for telling me that these pants make my rear end look big.

You know, you really have to want to be open.

And I gained as much as anybody from writing and every time I try to write it’s that same thing again. So it just kind of fell into that. And then we were members from the beginning of the American cheese society, co-founders of the Oregon Cheese Guild in 2005, or six when it got started. Then became more involved in, I won’t say the politics of cheese, but the bigger world of cheese.

Vern, my husband, is currently finishing up his last year as a board member of the American Cheese Society and once I stopped being a commercial cheesemaker, and I was able to be a chief judge or judge at competitions, without there being any conflict of interest.

And that’s been a wonderful, challenging, exciting and delicious thing to do.

You know, so it just kind of happened organically over that period of time. And I love that about life. Sometimes you follow one thing and if you just try to do it well, it usually leads to something else that you never would have never anticipated and got to go with it.

Brian: No, that’s a great philosophy.

How did you fall into doing speaking? Was that after writing your book? Or how did that come about?

Gianaclis: Well, I’ve always liked to teach. And I think that I was aware of that. Once I wanted to become a 4-H leader even, you don’t have to know much. And this may sound like, I don’t believe you should know should know much. But there’s always something you can share or teach to somebody just beneath you in their knowledge.

During and by sharing, you learn.

People ask you questions, and if you’re humble, you say, I don’t know, but I’m going to find out and you learn and you learn and you learn.

So I think teaching, speaking is a way to make your brain keep working. And to see the enthusiasm of others is very, few will view your own work. You know, seeing what you’re doing through others. That passion that you once felt about something, it rekindled it so it I kind of feed off of that.

I’m not a social person at all. But I do love teaching, speaking. Parties, I’m not that good unless it’s a cheese party and I’m teaching.

Brian: So did someone ask you to speak the first time or did you seek it out? How did that happen?

Gianaclis: Well, if you mean speaking at larger events that definitely coincided in my memory anyway, to the when you write a book. That’s something you really are signing on for when you write a an instructional nonfiction.

And even if you wrote fiction, you’d be expected to speak, although it’s usually in a smaller venue.

So I think if you’re not ready to sign on for that, it’s unlikely that no matter how good your idea for a book is, a publisher is going to feel like you’re not being part of a team.

So being part of the team for promoting your book involves that.

Brian: Absolutely, absolutely.

So that came along with your deal with Chelsea Green?

Gianaclis: Yes, I believe so I honestly haven’t thought about it and I don’t tend to remember or pay attention to try and remember all the things that have happened along the way.

But yeah, I was teaching before then and, you know, working as artists in residence at a school and in talking to the kids and things, but not speaking, as far as larger venues go.

Brian: Describe the type of person that was interested in the same topics that you were interested in the ones that would get involved and purchase your books and maybe you became friends with along the way, what type of person would that be?

Gianaclis: Well, there’s quite a spectrum from people now that I have six different topics or six topics that cover different areas.

You know, from people who just want to learn more about making cheese to people who are tastemakers that want to try to perfect their craft And then of course, on the business side, people who are thinking about doing this as a business. There’s definitely a lack of information that’s easy to find.

I knew that from trying to find it myself.

One of the more recent books on goat care and know how to approach a whole herd management from a holistic standpoint, which includes everything from herbal to traditional, but there I used to be a nurse.

I was a nurse first and that the LPN LVN. But when you’re a nurse, you learn to assess systems and you look at what you can interpret from the health and health symptoms present in a patient.

So you do that as a herd manager to you should be anyway, observing for changes in that homeostasis that indicates animals taking care of itself. So helping people to learn to look at their herd, that way is what that book is focused on.

And then what to do when it’s not going well, which every go owner stacks up a lot of information about that. And I definitely, always count on tapping into other people’s knowledge.

For any subject I try to write about or speak out and there’s for as much as you learn a lot goes out the other side of your brain to or isn’t accessible anyway in the moment.

That’s right thinking we got to always try to stay humble or otherwise you’re gonna get smacked upside the head by karma and the universe.

Brian: Absolutely.

What do you like best about your industry in your career as a whole?

Gianaclis: The cheese and food in general in the industry, but the small scale cheese and even some of the mid to large scale producers, it’s such a small worlds that it was, it was so embracing and still is for the most part. new people coming into it that you felt immediately part of this community.

And this is on the cheesemaking side of it.

Not that I’m mentioning right now. It was just so welcoming and so supportive and Oregon here where we are in particular, the guild is just, you know, no one is worried about competition.

There are a few that are, but for the most part, people are like, Yeah, get on board.

The more the merrier.

It’s a win win for everybody, and supportive and that’s, that’s wonderful. And then you bring in the fact that you’re talking about making something that other people love.

That’s one thing I found really gratifying compared to doing artwork, artwork you’re doing usually from yourself, it’s sharing some inner part of yourself. And that’s a very vulnerable thing to do, and isn’t always very gratifying and there’s nothing wrong with that.

But when I switch making cheese or when cheesemaking took over my life. It was so gratifying.

You know that have people try this thing and find out, you know, have their eyes light up and that they never knew goat cheese could taste like that and just super gratifying.

So that’s been been a really wonderful part of it too.

Brian: And why do you think that is, that distinction between those two worlds?

Gianaclis: Which the cheesemaking and art?

Brian: Yeah, between cheesemaking and art? Why is one more gratifying, do you think?

Gianaclis: Well, we all got to eat right and there’s really no, you know, that old saying now that quickly to someone we to be man part through their mouth and or through their stomach, that the quickest way to I think it really is true.

If people like to eat and there are very few people who don’t.

It’s a way to make a connection pretty faster than art is.

And the same way when it now that I’m going to suspect the fictions that will be more like art. As far as no matter how good of a book you write, there will be people that hate it. And they will.

But I guess that was true with the cheese a bit too you know you people who think they don’t want goats and have it stuck in their head that much less so food is an instant connection.

And this is why families gather for meals is why people are missing going to restaurants right now during the pandemic and just having that social thing centering around food.

Brian: It’s a great point is it since you bring it up, but how has COVID affected your life and in this this lifestyle that you’ve kind of chosen?

Gianaclis: Well, gosh, it’s interesting because if we had still been commercial tastemakers, it would have affected it much more greatly.

But the fact that we had already stopped it really hit us the most through the loss of Airbnb or pharmacy income. Oh yeah, yeah, cuz we shut that completely down until the first of July. And that was, it was definitely a tough period in that regard.

But, you know, another thing to the universe that also coincided I bought, all by speaking events were stopped also, classes are canceled. So that whole income stream went away also and gratifications stream if you will, was dried up.

But it coincided with our my husband’s parents, and my mother needing extreme amounts of our time is actually a wonderful time to have all that extra time if you will, to focus on something else. So it all worked out fine.

And we’ve opened up the Airbnb now with a lot of stipulations on masks and distancing and rules for contact, as well as how we take care of the space.

In between guests and now that most people are accustomed to doing those things, and it’s not new news to them, it’s going along very well.

Brian: Oh, good. Well, I met so much of that’s necessary right now.

How many guests can you accommodate at one time?

Gianaclis: We have two farmstays, but we’ve only opened one up for the season, because we felt that that was the best approach to keep the interaction between guests down.

So if we had one step that you know, wanted to be in a shared space, because there are certain parts of the barn that are shared spaces, that it wouldn’t overlap and make it anybody so awkward.

But we had an old Airstream trailer that we fixed up and three to four people can stay in that and that’s the one that’s open right now. And then the other ones a little little tiny building that we call the bunk callus that is has a justice two people capacity.

So it’s not like an inn by any means.

Brian: Oh, absolutely. Well, that’s really cool. I mean, and you have a variety that you’ve gone through just the past few years your life, it’s just..

Gianaclis: Yeah.

Brian: It’s such a great mix that’s cool.

Gianaclis: Yeah, you know, I’ve always felt even when I was young, or maybe in my late teens, I started feeling like life is really short.

And you got to get going, you know, if you’ve got something you want to do you better get started. And not wait.

You know, not dive in recklessly. But don’t keep waiting until you think you’re ready. Because if you do, you’ll be waiting forever, pretty much.

And Vern, my husband. He’s also very malleable that way. We always felt like if something’s not working well, in regard to…I’ll give you the example, being the cheese production, I still love making cheese and I miss making cheese commercially and selling it and then seeing people eat it, but it was not the right time to continue it.

We’d lost, or not lost, but our our children, adult children and moved away. And so that element of help went away.

And I was doing more and more traveling for the books and I really enjoyed that.

Then physically just getting older faster than you thought, were that sort of physical work of keeping up with everything help the number of goats I needed to manage.

Then I was the main cheese maker, also. The main goat care and the main cheese maker. It just becomes too much.

So I know let’s sit down and we’ve talked about what in our life couldn’t give what doing are we not ready to give up?

But what could we do without and probably be okay and then move forward from there. I miss making art, you know, I miss riding horses. I’m of that age where I don’t want to get broken.

So as much as I missed them, it would be really silly to start that up again. That’s how it is.

I think we’re kind of meant to enjoy things and parts of life, whether it’s when our children are really little, and then remember it and realize that you can’t have and do everything at once. That’s the way it goes.

Brian: No, that’s a great point.

So if we want to talk in like a year, let’s get you back on the show or something like that.

We look back over the last 12 months, oh boy, and just looked at where you’ve been what you’ve done.

What would you say would have had to have happen for you to feel happy about what you’ve accomplished?

Gianaclis: Well see now if I had an answer for that, I would be breaking my own philosophy, wouldn’t I?

Because I think, you know, if I’m really gonna follow what I said, it’s that I don’t know. I’m just trying to make good decisions now.

And I could fantasize you want my fantasy version?

Brian: Sure, let’s hear it.

Gianaclis: Okay, my fantasy version is that an agent decided my manuscript for this novel is just fantastic. And she’s going to shop it around and let’s see, our parents are all stable, and we’ve bought an RV. And we’re traveling to places and beautiful parks in the US that I’ve never seen. There you go.

Brian: Oh, that’s good.

Gianaclis: Oh and somebody moved into the farm to care for the goats because I don’t want to give them up either.

Brian: So how many goats do you have?

Gianaclis: We’re down, I’m down to milking only about seven. And then there are a number of goats and retired goats. So I think it’s only around 20 or so now, like at the peak, I milked 40, because you need to need a decent amount of milk to to make cheese and make it fairly efficiently.

So that, you know, you’re probably trying to get in the picture and because we live off the power grid, managing that system means that leaving this place if we leave for a few days.

Somebody’s got to be here to understand how to read all that and how to make sure that it seems cared for properly. We really have tied ourselves down.

And thank goodness, we really love this piece of land and love our place. But it does make that little fantasy I just shared a little bit implausible.

Brian: Sure, sure.

So what advice would you have for other people that are adventure seekers like you or I don’t know. how would you define yourself? First off, what would you call yourself?

Gianaclis: I don’t know. Farm girl, I guess. Yeah.

Brian: I think that’s a common thing that we see with both guests we’ve had on the show and yeah, listen, that they don’t really they do so many different things and go in so many different directions. They couldn’t just label themselves with one thing.

Gianaclis: Yeah, and if you are running a farm or a small piece of property, you do have to be a jack of all trades and to be able to fix things and he grew up like I did without money as a resource. You learn to make your brain your resource and you learn.

When we were first starting to do our own construction and plumbing and electrical. I thought I had to hire somebody. And then I realized, well, I can’t afford that. Hmm.

Do you think maybe I could learn it. And that was even in the days before YouTube that you go buy a couple books. And you read and you pay attention and you realize, well, that’s how everybody gets to be a master of something, they just study and practice.

So why not do that on your own stuff, and it’s definitely been, and that’s something we also love to do. We love to remodel houses, and it’s just so many things to do.

I feel very blessed and lucky that there are those things to do and that you know, despite how crazy the world is right now and has been off and on since we moved out of the trees and into the rest of the continent.

You know, there’s also lots of things to always be grateful for, and to try to focus on as positive.

Brian: That’s great. Yeah, absolutely.

Are there any other questions by then that that you’d like to answer?

Gianaclis: Oh, I don’t think so. I slipped up things about being off the power grid in there. And, and that’s something to people. Yeah, I guess I’ll speak a little bit about that for a second that for people who aren’t off the grid, that also sounds very romantic.

And I think it’s something we try to with our guests and anybody that comes to look at our system, ground people in the fact that first if you’re trying to be green for the planet sake, getting renewable energy and being grid tie is better for the planet.

So don’t think that we’re these wonderful examples of how everybody should be in that regard. But it also is a it’s another job.

Living like this, and it’s one we’ve adapted to and really appreciate as far as you don’t have a credit card for power, you only have a bank account and that bank account is filled by the sun and micro hydro we had and then in the worst cases a generator.

You can’t stand it just by plugging in. You know, you’ve got to think and I like that way of living for the most part.

But then again, I’d love to have a hot tub so that’s another fantasy is to live somewhere where we can, we can just plug in. So be conscientious that it’s easy to spend your life as a role model for how everybody should do it. But that’s not true.

And that’s not honest.

And I want people to understand that too, that they shouldn’t avoid doing something because it sounds hard, but they also should boot camps approach it from either side, the romantic side or that’s going to be too hard. somewhere in the middle is is the truth.

Brian: Absolutely. That’s great.

What can a listener do that wants to be able to follow your exploits online or be able to find some of your books or anything else?

Gianaclis: Yes, well we fully a farm has a website, pholiafarm.com. I have a website slash blog, which is my name GianaclisCaldwell.com.

Then we have the Facebook pages for both myself and the farm.

And I do my best to keep up on Instagram. But it’s for myself and for the farm so they’re all those three people can find email links from that and and message as the books of course are on all the usual online sites.

And through the publishers and I’m sure in a few stores to immigration one is a yogurt and keeper making book published by Storey which is probably will be the most visually appealing of the six.

So thanks to Storey’s, great work. It’s called, Homemade Yogurt and Keefer.

So, if you’re looking for some probiotics, including those in your life, hopefully that book will help.

Brian: That’s fabulous.

And what if someone would like to would like to come and stay on your farm at Airbnb?

How would they look that up?

Gianaclis: Yes, they can certainly look on Airbnb. And we’ve been doing this for long enough now I think about nine years that our listing comes up pretty, pretty high on the rankings.

So it should show up but it’s are also links on our on the Phila Farm website (philafarm.com).

So you can you can take a look at them there and if you can’t find it on Airbnb, we love having guests here. It’s been another one of those things where, as I said earlier, you start seeing what you’re doing to other people’s eyes.

So you can share a bit of that spark with somebody else and have them fall in love with goats or the fresh air and the beautiful stars, learn a little bit about the power consumption.

So when they leave, maybe they think more about it.

It’s nice for us, makes us feel good about what we’re doing.

And the income is helpful as well.

Brian: That’s awesome. Thanks so much for being on the show. Gianaclis.

Gianaclis: Yeah Brian, thank you.

Brian: Thank you for being on The Off The Grid Biz Podcast.

Brian’s Closing Thoughts: Was a really cool conversation with Giannaclis. I really had a good time. She reminds me of a quote that a friend of mine always uses a line from Helen Keller, which says, “Life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all.”

And it seems that’s Gianaclis’s life, it’s just a constant adventure. She’s just going from one concept to the other. And, the way she talks about, it seems like no big deal. But if you actually think about all these different steps, and all these things that she’s done, she’s done so many things that people go their whole life without ever doing.

But those things that people are always interested in doing. Like she said, there’s romance behind so many of these ideas, when you get down into them, they tend to get a little bit dirty and a little bit messy.

But at least she went out and did them. It’s really cool.

There’s a couple things that she said that I want to point out.

One is that food is an entryway. That it’s quicker to get to a person’s basically to get to a person’s desires than through art, getting through via the stomach, you know, and reaching them that way. That was very interesting.

I’ve never quite heard it put that way, though. I’ve known a lot of artists that we’re also into the culinary arts. That was interesting.

I like her perspective of being a creative person in kind of an entrepreneurial role. And doing these projects over and over.

Each one is like a little art project for her. And it’s very cool to think about it in those in those ways.

I also like that she hasn’t held herself to labels, you know, she’s not just a cheesemaker, or a dairy person, or a, an Airbnb person. You know, she’s, she’s done it all, and continues to do it all. And just, you never know where the circumstances are going to lead you.

She’s very much of a free spirit and a very cool person to talk to and I think a really great addition to our conversations here on Off the Grid Biz Podcast.

Jereme Zimmerman – Make Mead Like A Viking

Posted on September 7, 2019March 30, 2020 by brianjpombo@hotmail.com

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

Subscribe: RSS | More

Make Mead Like A Viking / Brew Beer Like A Yeti

Episode 019.

Are you willing to break the barriers of your “comfort zone?” Is your natural personality holding you back? Were you made for employment or entrepreneurship?

Jereme Zimmerman is a writer and traditional brewing revivalist who lives in Kentucky with his wife, Jenna, and daughters, Sadie and Maisie. In 2015 his book Make Mead Like A Viking was published, and became an unexpected hit! He followed that up with Brew Beer Like A Yeti in 2018.

Our conversation with Jereme goes into his life as a freelance writer and how it has lead him (inadvertently) to publishing books, and giving public speeches about homebrewing and the history surrounding it. His story is interesting and inspiring – Listen Now!

Find out more about Jereme: http://www.jereme-zimmerman.com/
Buy & Read his books: http://www.jereme-zimmerman.com/products-1?category=Books
Follow him on social media
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/JeremeZimmYeti/
- Twitter: https://twitter.com/JeremeZimm
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeremezimm/

Find out the business events secrets for growing and strengthening ANY company: http://brianjpombo.com/secrets/

Full Transcript

Jereme: I almost think I’m just kind of made to do this kind of thing. Same as when I was homeschooling I could I get up in the morning, my dad taught high school English, you’d get up really early, I get up with him do my work, I’d be done by 11 o’clock.

Sometimes, the rest of the day I’d be playing in the woods, doing chores and stuff. And then when my school friends came home, they’d been set in school and I’m like, ready to go.

So it’s the idea of just being able to get up. And even though it can be daunting, sometimes at least I know, okay, well, here’s a list of what needs to get done.

I’ll get as much done as I can and often do my chores now.

You may be a prepper, a gardener, a homesteader, a survivalist, or a farmer or rancher, an environmentalist or a rugged outdoorsman.

We are here to celebrate you whether you’re looking to improve your maverick business or to find out more about the latest products and services available to the weekend rebel.

From selling chicken eggs online, to building up your food storage or collecting handmade soap.

This show is for those who choose the road less traveled the road to self-reliance for those that are living a daring adventure, life off the grid.

Brian: Jereme Zimmerman is a writer and traditional brewing revivalist who lives in Berea, Kentucky. He has been published in various magazines and websites and travels globally to speak on topics such as fermentation, natural and holistic homebrewing, modern homesteading and sustainable living.

He is an avid fermenter and researches extensively into traditional fermentation practices in order to revive lost food arts, and to educate people on how to preserve food using traditional natural and healing ingredients and techniques.

His first book Make Mead Like a Viking was published in 2015. His second book, Brew Beer Like a Yeti, was published in September 2018.

Okay, Jereme Zimmerman. Welcome to the Off The Grid Biz Podcast.

Jereme: Thanks for having me.

Brian: Why don’t you tell us a little bit about who you are, and what you do?

Jereme: Well, you’ve already said my name. So we got that far.

I grew up on a goat farm in Kentucky, homeschooled all the way up through high school, didn’t go to high school. And my family was very self sufficient, can then preserved and hunted and fished and dad made his own wine from, you know, stuff he found in the woods and grew and that kind of thing.

That was my background.

And I chose to become an English major and actually use my English major for my job at this point.

I’ve been a freelance writer about 15 years now. And up until the past five, six years.

Yeah, it was just standard, just kind of business technical writing kind of thing.

My interest in homebrewing kind of started to get out there on the internet. I started blogging about it and from there very quickly turned being asteroid magazine articles to now having two books out.

Brian: What made you jump from the writing of articles to making book?

Jereme: I didn’t so much jumped as I was pushed.

So it was always this sort of yeah, like doing this, but I don’t know if anybody really wants to hear me write about.

Basically I had a friend who started a website called EarthandAir.com, which isn’t around anymore, but it was all geared toward homesteading kind of people.

And he kept pushing me to write blogs and I’ve been brewing beer. I was getting into Mead, and that was such a simpler thing to write about and talk about and I thought it was good for homesteading audience.

So I started blogging under a pseudonym redhead, a Yeti.

And he just was getting a tons of hits on the blogs and just turns out mead and Vikings were getting to be pretty big and they still are. So from there, just you know, I found a publisher at a Mother Earth News Fair.

They connected with me a presentation that I did and it just, things moved quickly from there.

Brian: So how did you end up doing presentations?

Did you ask them? Did they ask you how that start out?

Jereme: Again, I was pushed.

I my goal in becoming a writer was to live out in the woods, summer by myself, send my workout and I’d ever have to interact with people.

Turns out, you know, you kind of have to get out there in front of people.

So again, my friend Dan was here he was connected with Mother Earth News. So I’d never done anything more than talk in front of like five people at a time. And he connected me, got me doing a mead presentation to a couple hundred people at a Mother Earth News Fair in Asheville, North Carolina.

And, so I was like, do or die, why not? I’ll go ahead and do it.

And it went really well.

People kept asking if I had a book that some publishers were there and so that’s from there, I realized that the speaking thing is kind of important. So I’ve really honed my speaking skills and I’m actually starting to enjoy it.

Brian: Yeah, it’s great.

We got see your first your first presentation. Here today on beer making. That was great.

Me and the producer Sean here. You’ve written a couple of books here, can tell us a little bit about them for people who haven’t seen them yet.

Jereme: Yeah, so the first is make need like a Viking. And mead is a honey wine. It’s basically just an alcoholic beverage made from honey primarily.

And that was kind of my first blogs and my first workshops I called that, Make Mead Like a Viking.

Part of the inspiration for that was I was interested, I’ve always been interested in history and mythology and all that kind of thing.

But I’m specifically interested in how people made food and made and drink alcohol and other beverages. How they live, you know, everybody needs a drink.

So I kind of went at that from a DIY perspective.

And that’s where that came about.

And then my second book is almost twice as big as the first it’s called, Brew Beer Like a Yeti.

We decided to keep with a similar theme, but I went way beyond Viking in that one. So we didn’t didn’t really call it for beer like a Viking. And what that one is is essentially all the research I found on beer traditional beer brewing that just didn’t make sense man that made book.

So they’re kind of companion books basically.

Brian: Very cool. Got see your talk on beer making initially which is great, especially great for beginners people have never done anything like that before. I had a little bit of background I had a brother in law that had done it and so forth.

So I’d seen quite a bit of it before, it’s really great.

What’s your other presentation going to be about?

Jereme: So basically, I do a presentation for the beer book and presentation for the mead book.

So the one I’ve been doing at every Mother Earth News Fair since the first one I did like five years ago, I think it’s just make mead like a Viking. Is talking about the basics of me making and a little bit about the history mythology behind it.

And but I also do a third one Mother Earth News Fairs have started doing hands on workshops where people actually make a little bit of something and bring it home.

So we’ll be making a mead starter.

So basically, everybody takes a jar put some honey and water in a few other like fruits and berries and herbs. And that will then when they take it home as they do it right it’ll turn into a starter that they can then use as yeast to start a new batch of beer or mead.

Brian: That’s excellent. That’s so cool.

What do you hope people will walk away with after watching any of your presentations?

Jereme: Well, the one thing I always like to hear is, oh, that sounds a lot easier than I thought it would be.

So my goal has always been fermentation at its core is a very simple thing.

There are lots of lots of things you can do to make it not necessarily more complex, but more interesting. Although some people do like to make it complex.

I just really want people to understand that. It can be as complicated as you want it to be or it can be as simple as you want it to be.

So simplicity is the keyword for what I want people to walk away with.

Commercial Break: Okay, we’re going to pause the conversation right there. What you’re listening to right now is a special edition podcast. These episodes all have to do with the Mother Earth News fair in Albany, Oregon of 2019 at the time I’m recording this, we have learned so much about how to take advantage of events and I want you to be able to use this information in your own business.

Go to BrianJPombo.com/secrets. We are going to be putting out helpful materials on how you can use events to grow your business.

When you go to this page, you will either see our latest programs or if you make it there early enough, you will see an email address, capture page, put in your email address and we will be sure and update you. As soon as we get these out there, you’re not going to want to miss this.

If you get in early enough, you can get a special deal. These are principles that never go away. These programs will be based on the experience of people who have written books, spoken at the events or exhibited.

They’re talking about how to use events, books, and speaking all to build your business.

That’s BrianJPombo.com/secrets.

BrianJPombo.com/secrets and now back to the conversation.

Brian: We were talking before we started recording about how your publisher has set you up to attend these. Chelsea Green Publishing, right?

Jereme: Yeah.

Brian: And besides selling more books, what do you hope to get out of it? And what do you get out of putting these on coming to these events and so forth?

Jereme: Well, honestly, I’ve been doing it a few years now.

And I run into lots of the same people. It’s almost like a family reunion or a bunch of carnies is now I think about it.

It’s kind of a traveling carnival not just the fellow speakers, but all the people who put on the event, producers and you know, all those people are become friends and we all hang out afterwards and, you know, have a beer or whatever.

So it’s got that element.

I run into a lot of a lot of the same people who were just attending. Like this year, a guy came into my work shop and started talking to me, and I’m like I, I remember you. Yeah, I think I talked to you last year.

So there’s this real camaraderie. But I also use it as a springboard to tag on other events when I’m in a completely new area.

So I’m looking for article research for magazines. I’m finding other places in the area where I can do presentations to sell books. And you know, kind of a little bit of fun, too.

Brian: Well, that’s great. That’s really good.

Did you have a lot of history tied into everything that you do a whole lot of it’s a history lesson. Has that always been an interest to you?

Has it been something that’s just grown out of the general interest of making these things?

Jereme: Yeah, little both. I mean, I’ve always been just a history geek and and not just history, but the literature mythology and stuff of different time periods. And I always just figured it was just me and a couple of my geeky friends and it would never go beyond that.

But it just naturally became part of what I teach. I don’t really want to just teach.

Here’s how to do this A, B, and C, good job, go home. I want to learn how other people did in the past and it just kind of has become a natural thing for me to then pass it on to other people.

Brian: So you travel quite a bit to do these type of things. You have any logistical tips for other people that might be traveling and speaking doing some more things?

Jereme: Yeah, I probably got a ton of them. I don’t I don’t know how many am I want to get into.

But basically, try to get as many expenses covered as you can.

Like I said, you might my publisher helps to a degree that Mother Earth News Fair people help to a degree, but when I’m tacking on other events that aren’t tourism, then there’s no shame and asking for even just a little bit.

Travel pay, like you know, at least cover my gas maybe make sure you put me up.

Occasionally I’ll get an event where they can’t quite do all that but I understand that it’s really good for book sales or for networking.

So as far as if you’re just traveling to try and sell your stuff and sell your books, those are some of the biggest tips is just watch your money try to find any way you can get any of that I’m compensated because I’m not getting rich off this, but I’m at least getting by.

Brian: Absolutely. And then the book writing process.

Do you enjoy that whole process you like, don’t you? You see yourself doing it again?

Jereme: Yes and no.

Another author, you know, I was jokingly saying, she was working on a manuscript and I was like, it’s fun, isn’t it?

She like yeah, it’s fun when it’s done.

So there is a lot of you know, I wouldn’t do it if it wasn’t something I didn’t reeally like some aspect of. You know, parts of it.

They’re just a lot of fun. The research is what really I think is fun for me but also gets tedious after up I’m like, Okay, I gotta stop at some point.

The writing is fun it’s when you get into the the final stages of proofing and editing which never seems to end, but I’m kind of a perfectionist unfortunately my editors are too.

So that’s almost fun in a way it’s just going through and tightening up some of the text or being like, you know, I think one of the phrases here sometimes is kill your darlings. You got sometimes there’s a big chunk that put a lot of time into and it’s just not working so I cut it out, but I always save it and I basically got a second book out of that. I still had to cut a lot of stuff out but yeah, it’s enjoyable, but there’s just there’s just so much more to it than just writing.

Brian: Makes a lot of sense then it’s funny because your background I was just curious. Being homeschooled and everything, homeschooling tends to be weaved throughout the DIY community.

Is Do It Yourself schooling, how how does that fit into your…..I don’t know, adventurous spirit or your ability to just kind of go out there and try new things, or have you seen that tie into it at all?

Jereme: Yeah, I mean, I always think it would be harder for me to do this if I didn’t have that background.

And I’ve thought about it. I’ve been basically self employed freelancing for most of my career and was 15 years now. And even though there are aspects of having a regular full time job, like insurance and retirement and all that.

For one thing that appealed to me and I do occasionally apply for a job that looks like something I might enjoy, but you know, basically, I think I’m just kind of made to do this kind of thing.

Same as when I was homeschooling I could I get up in the morning, my dad taught high school English, he’d get up really early, I get up with him. Do my work, I’d be done by 11 o’clock sometimes.

The rest of the day I’d be playing in the woods, doing chores and stuff. And then when my school friends came home, they’d been sitting in school all day and I’m like, ready to go.

So it’s the idea of just being able to get up. And even though it can be daunting, sometimes at least I know, Okay, well, here’s a list of what needs to get done.

I’ll get as much done as I can. And then I’ll go off and do my chores and have some fun.

Brian: Yeah. I appreciate you taking time out. It’s a busy weekend and everything taking time out and hanging out with us.

What’s the best way for people to get in touch with you or to get a hold of your books or anything else?

How would you direct them?

Jereme: Well, the easiest thing to do is just to Google my name, because I’m on like multiple different platforms. So my name is my website, which is the name spelled a little different, it’s, J E R E M E, and the website is, Jereme-Zimmerman.com.

So yeah, long enough of a name might be quicker to Google that, but I’m also if you have a business Facebook page, which is different from my personal so that’s, that’s where you can find me on.

I’m on Twitter a little bit.

I don’t use it much, but @JeremeZimm is my Twitter and my Instagram login. And for getting books. I mean, it’s all over Amazon you get if my publisher Chelsea Green Publishing, but my website I sell them through my website and I always sign anything I sell.

So you want a signed copy can do that and 24.95 the jacket price, but I usually sell for a little less.

Brian: Right on. Hey, thanks so much Jereme Zimmerman for being on the Off The Grid Biz Podcast.

Jereme: Yeah, thanks for having me. It’s been great.

Brian’s Closing Thoughts: Really nice guy, lots of fun to sit down and talk to very personable.

Which is interesting because he’s also kind of admitted that he’s somewhat of an introvert, but he got pushed into not only becoming a writer but becoming a public speaker.

You have to get out there in front of people to promote your books and so forth and to get your name out there. And that’s a big piece I think that most people completely miss when they start down the road of writing a book.

We spoke with Andy Brennan in an earlier episode. And it’s impressive to me that these people who would normally consider themselves introverts do so well on a stage.

And he did well on a stage, Jereme was very good on a stage and was able to put these very complicated concepts and make them very simplified. I really liked it.

His willingness to go along and try out these new things and finding other opportunities and being open to other opportunities is really cool, too.

It’s an attitude that I think all successful business owners have, and people that are on their way to becoming successful. You need to realize that those are the good parts of you.

The parts that seek out opportunity, the parts that are willing to go beyond your comfort zone, don’t neglect that side of you because that is what’s going to lead to success for sure.

And also the realistic end where he says that there’s no shame in asking for travel pay. It’s something that’s necessary when you’re moving ahead.

But it’s like he said, You don’t do it just to sell your books, you got to make sure you can at least get by.

Don’t spend more money than is necessary to be able to go out and promote your books in order to make money. Your budget has to match up at the end of the day. Really good advice.

I like how he blends history along with the How To of making beer or making mead or all the other things that he talks about. That’s very much a personality thing.

And for him to allow himself and his personality to spread out, makes his entire brand unique. He doesn’t have to worry about competing against everyone else telling you how to make beer or how to make Mead.

These are all things you can look up online.

What he brings to it is personality background, and something that you just get from anywhere else.

If you have that type of courage in your writing in your speaking in your content development, you’re going to get a good response back and you will delete any sense of competition.

Finally, I love when he said, I guess I’m just kind of made to do this type of thing.

And he was referring back to homeschooling. And he related all that back to being self employed. Tying in directly with the homeschooling, that self reliant attitude is great because we have a podcast here about self reliance, but also it goes to the core of what being an entrepreneur is all about.

And Jereme definitely has that entrepreneurial spirit.

That’s BrianJPombo.com.

If you or someone you know would like to be a guest on The Off The Grid Biz Podcast, offthegridbiz.com/contact. Those who appear on the show do not necessarily endorse my beliefs, suggestions, or advice or any of the services provided by our sponsor.

Our theme music is Cold Sun by Dell. Our executive producer and head researcher is Sean E Douglas. I’m Brian Pombo and until next time, I wish you peace, freedom, and success.

Michael Foley – Farming for the Long Haul

Posted on August 1, 2019March 30, 2020 by brianjpombo@hotmail.com

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

Subscribe: RSS | More

Episode 018.

How close in proximity do you get to your customer base? What would you do if the world economy went bust? Are you connected with a local customer base, and can you survive independently?

Michael Foley is a farmer, local food activist, and writer. He is the author of Farming for the Long Haul: Resilience and the Lost Art of Agricultural Inventiveness. He takes a historic look at farming, (with a global perspective) and discusses what he considers “good economics” especially regarding small farming.

Are you a homesteader? Do you take it seriously, or is it just a fun hobby? Michael may give you a new perspective of what it means to be self-sustaining.

Are you doing what you love in your business? Do you feel guilty for how EASY it is for you? I think you’ll relate with Michael’s story regarding writing and teaching. Listen now!

Find out more about Michael: https://www.anothermadfarmer.org/
Find out more about Green Uprising Farms: https://greenuprisingfresh.wordpress.com/
Find out more about the School of Adaptive Agriculture: https://www.school-of-adaptive-agriculture.org/

Find out the business events secrets for growing and strengthening ANY company: http://brianjpombo.com/secrets/

Full Transcript

Michael: That’s something that I’ve emphasized. I work with a lot of young farmers both through the school and through farmers market and through something we created called, the Farmers Guild, that direct sales are really what you’ve got to do at least as part of your market, if your going to make it.

Podcast Intro: If you’re someone who refuses to go along to get along, if you question whether the status quo was good enough for you and your family.

If you want to leave this world better off than you found it and you consider independence a sacred thing.

You may be a prepper, a gardener, a homesteader, a survivalist, or a farmer or rancher, an environmentalist or a rugged outdoorsman.

We are here to celebrate you whether you’re looking to improve your maverick business or to find out more about the latest products and services available to the weekend rebel.

From selling chicken eggs online, to building up your food storage or collecting handmade soap.

This show is for those who choose the road less traveled the road to self-reliance for those that are living a daring adventure, life off the grid.

Brian: Michael Foley is a farmer, local food activist and writer. Formerly a political scientist, he now runs Green Uprising Farms in Willets, California with his wife and oldest daughter. He is also a co founder of the School of Adaptive Agriculture, a farmer training program and Willits.

He is the author of Farming For the Long Haul – Resilience and the Lost Art of Agricultural Inventiveness.

Michael, welcome to the Off The Grid Biz Podcast.

Michael: Thanks, Brian. Thanks for having me.

Brian: Yeah. Besides what we read out on your bio, what else can you tell us about yourself and let people know a little bit about who you are and what you do.

Michael: I actually just stepped down as manager of the Willets Farmers Market, which I did for nine years. And that put me in touch with lots of local produce vendors and a few, a few meat producers and I to know the sort of alternative agricultural community.

That doesn’t mean bunch of hippies and liberals by any means, though.

There are some people in this community who think of the farmers market that that way. But in fact, a lot of the people producing out there are second, third generation residents of this place and old school in a lot of respects, they just understand the worth of direct sales.

That’s something that I’ve emphasized. I work with a lot of young farmers, both through the school and through farmers market and through something we created called Farmers Guild. And that’s something that I emphasize with them that direct sales are really what you’ve got to do, at least as part of your market. If you’re going make it.

Brian: Oh, that’s great advice. What else can you tell us about the Farmers Guild?

Michael: Well, the Farmers Guild, it started out as a pretty much a social organization among young farmers. So some of us old folks played a role in it, and it’s gone back to being pretty much a social organization.

But for a while it was an organization where all of us traded ideas and learn from one another and sometimes we had worked parties on weekends to help one another on one another’s farms. So it was good source of solidarity for people who were doing, especially market gardening, but also, you know, the kind of farmers market sales.

Brian: I mean, I read that you had just written, Farming For The Long Haul.

Can you tell us a little bit about that book?

Michael: Okay, well, that book grew out of, I don’t know, 50 years of interest in farming and reading about agriculture, reading anthropology and history. And the book is kind of unusual in that respect among farming books, because it really goes back into a lot of that history and anthropology, but the reason it does so is to think about what farming in the future is going to look like.

Our industrial scale farming is just a blip on the screen. Though there been other experiments in large scale farming.

Roman senators, for example, had huge, huge latifundia, that were farmed by slaves, and it destroyed Roman soil, just like we’re destroying American soil with our industrial scale farming.

Our farming systems not gonna last, it’s not gonna last through the end of petroleum. And we’ve got to look for something else.

And so the book explores what we can do to make ourselves more resilient now, while still making a living farming. What we would look like in the future, what we would look like in the future, from my point of view looks a lot like what we looked like in the past.

And I spent a lot of time emphasizing that a lot of farming cultures for successful for hundreds, even thousands of years.

By and large people were prosperous, and they didn’t have all the gadgets we have, but they were prosperous, they ate well, and they lived well, most of the time, all those years.

So that’s an important point. I am underlined in the book, but I look at all kinds of innovations. I mean, after all, traditional farmers without any scientific training came up with all the cultivated crops we have today. All of them, and multiple variations on them.

That’s where the embeddedness comes in, you know, they, you didn’t need a plant breeder, trained at a university. And you didn’t need a plant breeder employed by Monsanto. You did it yourself. And some farmers are still doing it themselves, especially in poor parts of the world, but also increasingly here in this country.

Brian: So what led you to write the book to begin with?

Michael: Two things. One of them was frustration at the business advice young farmers for getting it was scale up, scale up, borrow. If you have to borrow be because you’re scaling up just go full tilt.

And I knew from my reading of the recent…that is the last 50 years of American farming. That’s a recipe for disaster.

That’s how millions of American farmers lost their farms.

So I was upset with that.

And I wanted to present an alternative point of view. A lot of the book is actually about the economics of farming or what should be the good economics of small farming. And then the other thing is, like I said, I’ve been looking at and thinking about and reading about and as a political scientists actually doing some research about farming around the world for 50 years.

I started teaching a class on the history of agriculture with, at the School of Adaptive Agriculture. And realized I had all this knowledge, some of it tucked away in notebooks that I’d forgotten about. I really want to share it. So those are the two impulses for the book.

Brian: Very cool. And I saw that it’s published by Chelsea Green Publishing. Did you reach out to them? Did they reach out to you? How did that work?

Michael: Yeah, I was unknown, in the farming literature world. You know, I did academic publications that nobody’s interested in. And so I got this thing started in summer of 2017. And I got far enough that my wife said, you know, you got to put this out.

Chelsea Green Publishing was my first choice of publisher, I looked up what they required a prospectus with two or three finished chapters and an outline and various things. And so I put that together and set it off. And they said, Yes, we talked a little about the timeline. How long was going to take me and I, of course, committed to a quick a timeline. Though I’ve met it, and we went from there.

Brian: Did you enjoy that whole process? Would you do it again?

Michael: Yeah, I enjoyed it.

I’m one of these people who find it easy to write. And I’m sort of embarrassed about that because so many people find it so hard, but it’s satisfying to me the way cooking is satisfying to me.

There’s some similarities. Yeah, I enjoyed the process and I enjoyed digging out stuff that I once knew and didn’t know quite and learning a lot of new stuff and I always like doing that.

Go to BrianJPombo.com/secrets.

We are going to be putting out helpful materials on how you can use events to grow your business.

When you go to this page, you will either see our latest programs or if you make it there early enough, you will see an email address, capture page, put in your email address and we will be sure and update you. As soon as we get these out there, you’re not going to want to miss this.

If you get in early enough, you can get a special deal. These are principles that never go away.

These programs will be based on the experience of people who have written books, spoken at the events or exhibited.

They’re talking about how to use events, books, and speaking all to build your business.

That’s BrianJPombo.com/secrets.

BrianJPombo.com/secrets and now back to the conversation.

Brian: So you’re slated to present at Mother Earth News Fair in Albany, Oregon, right? What will you be covering?

Michael: Well, the first talk is called the future of farming is homesteading. And it emphasizes one of the points of the book and that is that if we want to survive economically, our farming ought to feed ourselves, at least to some large extent, like it used to.

As recently, as you know, the 1950s American farmers were feeding themselves.

So that in hard times, you got something to fall back on. Wendell Berry tells a story about Kentucky in the 30s when the population actually grew, because people who were out of work went back to the farm because they knew that there was food there, at least then they could help out and make more food.

And he wonders what would happen today?

I think this was 2008. So the you know that prices of 2000 what would happen today because most of those farms don’t exist anymore, and they don’t produce for themselves.

So that’s why I say the future of farming is homesteading, not in the sense that we won’t be producing for the market. But in the sense that yeah, we’re going to have to learn to produce for ourselves and most homesteaders, my senses don’t produce enough for themselves.

It’s an ideal but none of us do. That’s a threat. And the second one is about the real economics of farming, and makes that point. And also the point that, you know, we have to sustain our land if we’re going to sustain ourselves economically, we have to start learning to farm from the resources available to us, instead of buying in all these external inputs and fancy tools, and that are all the rage, even among very small market gardeners today, because we’re not going to have the income to do that sort of thing.

And we have to meet a bottom line right now, we have to meet a bottom line. So the more we can minimize our expenses, the better off we’re going to be.

Brian: What do you hope people will walk away with after watching either of these presentations?

Michael: I hope they’ll be inspired to find new ways to make what they’re doing more satisfying, both personally and economically to themselves. Yeah, you know, they’ll either find new value in what they’re already doing, or they’ll do more of it and build more resilient farms and homesteads and gardens out of what they’re but they’re doing.

Brian: Well, that’s great. And what do you hope to get out of this?

Michael: Again, I’m a little embarrassed to say this, but I I like to teach I, I just do. I like to. I like to talk to people.

My style tends to be a lot of talk, but also a lot of interaction. I like to try to draw people out and get to know people and hear from them. That’s always something I get out of these things.

Brian: Have you done this before at the Mother Earth News Fair?

Or is the first time?

Michael: No this is my first time.

Brian: Oh, great.

Michael: Yeah.

Brian: Have you done it at any other expos or anything of that sort like this?

Michael: The only thing that I’ve done so far is we launched the book at EcoFarm, the EcoFarm Conference in California, which is, you know, the major sustainable farming conference that was in January.

And so I did a round table kind of thing there where I sort of laid out the basic argument and then opened it up to discussion. We had a great time.

Brian: Who are you most hoping to reach? Like if there was an ideal person that you think you can touch either through your speaking? Or one on one? Who would that be?

Michael: I think my target audience. So people I was thinking about as I was writing, where these young farmers and aspiring farmers that I know, and that I work with, in some cases taught but also just worked with on some local projects.

Brian: Very good. Very good. So we have a lot of business owners, executives who listen to the show, do you think it’d be worthwhile for them to plug into events like this?

Michael: Well, I think it depends a lot on the business. I mean, you have you have featured some businesses where yeah, it clearly makes sense. But yeah, it definitely depends on the business. everybody’s gotta, you know, judge their market find their audience.

Brian: Yeah. Good point. So how did you end up becoming speaker here was that set up through your publisher did you reach out to them, did they reach out to you?

Michael: Yeah, Chelsea Green Publishing presented it as an opportunity to me. So I went through the application process with Mother Earth News. And then I think Chelsea Green gave them a little nudge to and then they put me on the program.

Brian: Well, fabulous. But is there anything I haven’t asked you that you think you’d like to say?

Michael: Oh, boy, um, I guess there’s two things.

One of them that I spent some time on is being aware of what I call the whole farm, or what I’m beginning to call more and more the skin of the farm.

And there were a lot of uses that underpin the economy of the farm that need to be revived.

I ran into some biodynamic farmers who described the wild outer edges of their farmers skin. And I like that concept, because it’s porous and it lets good things in and protects the farm, but it’s also a resource and traditional farmers used the water wild edges of the farm, and a lot of them had woodlands or wood lots.

Some practices that we don’t know much about it all in the United States like coppicing, cutting trees down to their base, letting them grow up long straight poles, or ones that can be used for basket weaving or for pole construction or anyway. Just various practices of managing the wild that can be useful economically.

And good for the wild and good for the farm.

So that’s one piece.

The other pieces that I really emphasized the importance of community.

I think community is kind of the social skin of the farm, that the people in your community are your natural customers. And increasingly, as the crises of the century unfold, they’re going to be our principal customers, they are not just our customers, but our support.

I mean, I can’t tell you how many times people have said, keep the change, you work so hard at farmer’s market. Or given me exorbitant fees for, you know, for something simple, or people come out to help raise money.

The local community helped us raise money for drilling a well.

And that and then our farmers helping one another. Some friends, homemade hoop house, huge thing blew up in a storm, they were ready to quit farming and a bunch of local farmers came out, help them rebuild it.

One of the guys who’s an engineer or former engineer and a volunteer at the school, helped them redesign it so it wouldn’t blow up again.

Brian: Wow.

Michael: That kind of, you know, that kind of helping one another mutual aid some people call it which is common among the Amish and used to be common and American farmer, kind of country.

Yeah, that’s really important. And it’s important to the bottom line, I keep emphasizing, you know, it’s not just good feeling, which is important.

We don’t want to be depressed. But it’s also good for our bottom line. It’s supporting us.

Brian: Those are great points. Really good.

So, what could a listener do? Who want to find out more about you maybe get their hands on your book? Where’s the best place for them to go?

Michael: Okay, for the book, I would say, go to your local bookstore. Free Shipping, just like Amazon.

Avoid the giants if you can.

You can also go to Chelsea Green Publlishing.

I have a website called AnotherMadFarmer.org. And that’s where I rant and carry on and give information about where I’m speaking and post some reviews.

Brian: Yeah.

Michael: And so they can go there that comes from a poem by Wendell Berry’s that I like the, Mad Farmer Liberation Front. Then this the website for the farm itself Green Uprising, just look up Green Uprising Farm, to find it.

Brian: We’ll put the link in the description for it.

Michael: Okay. Yeah, good.

And then there’s then there’s the School-Of-Adaptive-Agriculture.org. Those are words separated by hyphens, or you could just type adaptive agriculture.org and get the website and see all the things we’re doing.

We’re doing a wonderful workshop series right now. That’s been really fun to see develop.

Brian: Fabulous. Well, that’s great. Hey, thanks for spending time with us, Michael.

I know you’ve had a busy week. And we’d love to have you back on the show.

Thank you for being on the Off The Grid Biz Podcast.

Michael: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me, Brian. It’s been delightful.

Brian’s Closing Thoughts: Good conversation with Michael.

He’s a very interesting person, has a lot of great insights. Afterwards, it kind of hit me he’s really in the field of economic emergency preparedness, if you think about it.

And I relate with that, because my original interest in homesteading kind of came from a similar background. He has deeper thoughts about homesteading.

And he’s kind of a historian in that field, type of person we really haven’t spoken to up until now, I wanted to point out some of the ideas that he put out there.

The first one was, what brought him into writing a book to begin with, and that’s that his wife pointed out is that he’s got all this knowledge, he learned all this stuff, he might as well put it out there for other people to be able to consume. And that’s a great point.

I think a lot of people, they learn how to do things, they get out there and do them and they don’t take that extra step to teach it to pass it along.

And Michael already has a background as a teacher.

So writing a book really was a natural step for him.

Made a lot of sense, especially since he already found it. So easy to write. I mean, he said he’s embarrassed that he finds it so easy to write that he finds it so satisfying, and that he likes teaching. He likes to teach people he likes to talk to people. I think this is very, very common.

You’ll hear the same thing said in a lot of our other interviews that we’ve had with speakers from the Mother Earth News Fair, especially the part about being embarrassed about it.

I think that’s pretty common. If I were to guess where that comes from, I know for myself, I’ve always seen those speakers, teachers that are out there that enjoy the sound of their own voice, you know, they’re really into it, they really enjoy it, and it kind of leaves you feeling a little icky afterwards.

I don’t think any of us want to be that person. And so when we say that we enjoy talking to people, and we enjoy speaking in front of people and writing and all the rest.

We don’t want to sound egotistical, I think as long as you’re careful. Not to enjoy things too much not to get too much into it, you should be able to have a good time.

Enjoy yourself be happy that you have the inclination to be able to talk to large amounts of people to be able to express your thoughts in words, either physically or on paper.

That’s a great thing because it allows you the chance to be able to live beyond yourself and really pass your ideas on to the next person, something real magical about that we’ve been talking about learn, do teach from all the speakers because they’ve all gone through a similar process.

And that kind of brings me to the idea of publishing a book.

I like hearing his process of how he went about doing it. He wanted to get the book out there, he found a publisher that he thought matched him and that’s really important to do.

Chelsea green Publishing is one of the big ones in this space. Everyone I know that it’s been publishing with them seems to have good things to say about them, but it’s important They’re a match for you, you look at the other things that they have published, talk to maybe other authors that have published with them and whether they appreciate the services.

Then go through the process that it takes to get published. Michael’s willing to do that.

So he ended up with Chelsea Green. They in turn, linked him up with speaking opportunities, including the Mother Earth News Fair, and the rest is history. Everything works.

Well, when you’re working with people that are on your side.

The last thing I wanted to point out about what Michael said was his big point at the end about community and about community customers, it ties again, some of the first things he was talking about in regards to the farmers market.

And that direct sales, one on one relationship with people.

It’s like he says, not just for good feelings good for the bottom line. It’s a practical thing.

So whether you’re talking economic or ecological apocalypse, obviously in those situations, it’s good to have some self sufficiency with a homestead or something similar.

And it’s good to have that reliability of personal relationships, personalized customers that you can work with.

Everything online is an echo of physical reality. And a lot of times, people get caught up with the online world as if it’s more real than the real world.

When in reality, everything starts at the real world. And if you get in with a real relationship with your customers, one on one, even at a distance over the telephone is a good start.

But in person, maybe at events like the Mother Earth News Fair, maybe locally at a farmers market or what have you, you’re really hitting on that advantage that the big guys can do.

This is what the Amazon.com’s of the world cannot produce.

They cannot have that one on one relationship, use that advantage.

Use it, because it’s always good insurance in the long run, regardless of what happens on a global scale.

Even if you’re having a bad year as a business, if something bad happened within your business that’s lowering things, having that security to depend on those one on one relationships.

Those are the things that never go away. As long as you don’t burn those bridges.

You’re always going to have those connections out there, don’t take them for granted. And I really do thank Michael for coming on the show.

I hope to find out more about his ideas and concepts and theories as we go ahead in the future.

Outro: Join us again on the next Off The Grid Biz Podcast brought to you by the team at BrianJPombo.com, helping successful but overworked entrepreneurs, transform their companies into dream assets.

That’s BrianJPombo.com.

If you or someone you know would like to be a guest on The Off The Grid Biz Podcast, offthegridbiz.com/contact. Those who appear on the show do not necessarily endorse my beliefs, suggestions, or advice or any of the services provided by our sponsor.

Our theme music is Cold Sun by Dell. Our executive producer and head researcher is Sean E Douglas.

I’m Brian Pombo and until next time, I wish you peace, freedom, and success.

Leah Webb – Deep Rooted Wellness

Posted on July 30, 2019March 30, 2020 by brianjpombo@hotmail.com

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

Subscribe: RSS | More

The Grain-Free Sugar-Free Dairy-Free Family Cookbook

Episode 013.

How do you handle adversity? Are you always worried that the worst-case scenario will occur? Can a bad health diagnosis ever lead to something good?

Leah Webb is the creator of DeepRootedWellness.com and the author of The Grain-Free, Sugar-Free, Dairy-Free Family Cookbook: Simple and Delicious Recipes for Cooking with Whole Foods on a Restrictive Diet.

When Leah’s son Owen showed signs of food allergies and asthma, and then her daughter June was diagnosed with cystic fibrosis (CF), a genetic disease primarily affecting the lungs and pancreas, something major had to be done. Leah has always been passionate about health, but this lead her down an entirely new field of nutrition that completely changed her personal and professional life.

“I no longer accept feeling powerless and defeated. I no longer accept the doctor’s word as the final say. I no longer accept that disease has to be terrible.”

What if a slight change of perspective could change your health forever? Find out why Leah calls this situation a “gift from the darkness.” Listen now!

Find out more about Leah Webb: http://www.deeprootedwellness.com

Find out the business events secrets for growing and strengthening ANY company: http://brianjpombo.com/secrets/

Full Transcript

Leah: This was an opportunity that fell in my lap. And I talked about that a little bit in the book.

I call it a gift from the darkness, because we did end up with some tough circumstances. It’s the idea that when you open the door to allow the light to come in that there can be gifts that you get from these dark circumstances. And I truly believe that this book was one of such opportunities for me.

From selling chicken eggs online, to building up your food storage or collecting handmade soap.

This show is for those who choose the road less traveled the road to self-reliance for those that are living a daring adventure, life off the grid.

Brian: Leah Webb mph obtained her health coach certification from the Institute for Integrative Nutrition. After earning a bachelor in Science degree in environmental biology from Appalachian State University and a Master of Public Health degree in environmental health sciences from Georgia Southern University.

She’s worked in nutrition and gardening education since 2009, with a focus on engaging children and healthy eating habits, experiential learning and discovery, Leah started and runs the deep rooted wellness blog on which she posts stories and tips regarding nutrition, gardening and healthy families.

She lives in the mountains of North Carolina with her husband TC and her two children Owen and June.

Owen has a life threatening anaphylaxis allergy to wheat and June has cystic fibrosis a genetic disease severely impacted in the lungs and pancreas. Leah is the author of the grain free, sugar free dairy free family cookbook a comprehensive guide for families interested in learning to cook more meals from scratch in a manageable way.

Her commitment to a restrictive nutrient dense diet has played an important role in their children’s integrative care. When not at work, you’ll find Leah in her garden tending to her chickens, volunteering in children’s schools or engaging in a variety of forms of exercise that feel nourishing.

Leah web Welcome to the Off The Grid Biz Podcast.

Leah: Thanks, Brian. I’m super excited to be here with you and just have the opportunity to talk about some of the things I do. And yeah, I’m excited to talk about Mother Earth News Fair today. It’s an exciting place.

Brian: That’s great, no we’re happy to have you here.

So besides what we heard in your bio, tell us a little more about who you are and what you do.

Leah: So I am a certified health coach.

And I started my business by doing one on one coaching and teaching cooking classes, workshops and things like that. One of the themes that I repeatedly saw that people struggled with was being able to implement some of the strategies that you give them for being healthy.

You can give them recipes, and you can give them tools. But unless they really have a plan for implementing those tools for implementing those recipes and for whatever system that you’ve decided that would be beneficial together, you know, they really need a little bit of further guidance.

And so that’s kind of where my work started moving in this direction of really teaching people, the house of implementing a healthy diet.

That’s how this book came about is, some of it was because I did deal with these pretty major challenges with my kids.

My son has an allergy to wheat and barley that made it to where we really are not able to eat out with him very easily. We have a couple of restaurants that are safe for him and honestly read out about twice a year.

Just because it’s it’s not a safe thing for him.

Then with my daughter, her being born with cystic fibrosis, I felt that somebody having a genetic disease was already starting at a disadvantage and it felt really important for me to give her the correct nutrition that she needs to be able to support her body in any way that I could just to help her along.

And so I kind of combine these two things. I had this these issues with my kids where my kids really needed a healthy diet.

My son especially needed a restrictive diet, one that had to be very specific to meet his needs.

Then watching all these people really struggle with meal planning and prep through all of those experiences is how I was able to develop a system for meal planning and prep that I wrote about in this book. And this is a complete guide for people who are interested in learning how to meal plan and prep and cook healthy foods for family on a regular basis.

Because as you all know, we’re all really busy. Cooking from scratch takes a lot of time.

This is a modern day problem. We’ve got to figure out solutions on how to prepare more meals from real foods while allowing that to fit into a time constraints that we all have.

Brian: Great. Well, tell us a little bit more about your book.

Leah: So this is published by Chelsea Green Publishing one of the largest publishers of sustainable living and Integrative Health books in the US.

They were phenomenal to work with.

I feel that I had great content to offer, but they just really made it that much better. And so the whole first part of the book I start with an introduction is to explain the science behind this diet, why it is that somebody might be interested in going, in eliminating grains, sugar and dairy.

I’m a why person, I have a background in research. If you tell me to do something, my first response is, well, why.

And so that’s what I wanted this book to this book really reflects my personality and just kind of the thoroughness that I approach things with.

This whole first chapter talks about why this diet is important and why it would be valuable. And then in the next three chapters, I talked about how you can get your kids involved.

What are some of the strategies to get them interested in being in the kitchen?

What are some strategies for introducing solids for correcting picky eating.

Then I move into how you get prepared to do this, because this is where I was talking about when people lack a plan. They tend to not follow through their actions. And I wanted somebody to get this book and say, Well, yeah, I want to be able to make these recipes.

But if I don’t have a plan on how it is, I’m going to do it, it may not actually happen.

And so I tell you, everything from what types of things you should put in your pantry in your freezer, what types of cooking utensils you need, up to how it is that you formulate a meal plan.

Then one of the key pieces of the book that I really hope that everybody sees this piece and reads it and is able to implement it is just rethinking this idea of quantity. And I have some meal plans in the book and the appendices.

Where I recommend that people double, triple even sometimes quadruple recipes when possible, because a number of recipes are able to be frozen for later.

The time investment that it takes to double, triple or quadruple a recipe is not nearly as much time as it would take you to prepare that recipe from scratch down the road. And that piece alone can save you hours in the kitchen every week.

And so with these meal plans that I’ve developed, the first week you start out by having to spend around six and a half hours in the kitchen total and this is making breakfast, lunch dinner and snacks from scratch for a family of four. Which I feel like most families have for spending six and a half hours in the kitchen anyways and they are not preparing that much food from scratch.

And then in these later weeks because you are pulling foods from the freezer, you’re able to cut down on your time investment as you keep going with the system.

So a system of preparing in bulk freezing foods and pulling from the freezer so that you reduce your overall workload.

And then the recipes are all really simple. I didn’t want this to be…this is a practical everyday guide. It’s not intricate culinary masterpieces that require all these unfamiliar ingredients.

This is for a busy family that just, sometimes you just got to get it done. And that’s what I’m trying to help people do.

Brian: That’s great advice. I know from personal example, my wife does a lot of cooking at home, by far majority of what we do is all at home, and that’s one of the things that she’s had to follow.

We’ve got three kids, three pretty young kids at home. And so, same thing, you’ve got to double, triple, quadruple the recipe, and you got to be willing to do that. Definitely a time saver. That’s great advice.

Leah: And I think we also underestimate how much we can eat sometimes. I mean, especially when you do have young kids, I have a boy and a girl and my son he is just like a bottomless pit sometimes.

Brian: Yeah, lol.

Leah: I mean, it’s incredible how much food he can eat. And that’s some of really rethinking this idea of quantity and being realistic and the amount that you prepare.

Brian: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

So with that in mind, you talk about being a why person, I totally hear you on that. So why did you write the book? Why did you go through that whole long process and that most people never get around to.

Leah: But I have a very unique story. I don’t think that it happens like this for most people.

I was asked to write the book. And I saw this as a really excellent opportunity, especially given the quality of the publishing company. At that time, my daughter was still pretty young. I mean, she’s only four now, but I think she was around 18 months of age.

With her disease. It also requires a huge investment of time.

That’s some of why I had to streamline this meal planning and prep process as well.

Her daily treatments and therapies take about an hour every single day and there’s a greater time.

Investment when she’s sick being in that period of when you have a young infant, and they need all this extra care plus I had the sun with all these allergies, I felt pretty open to doing something outside of just being a mom.

And I think for me, this felt like a really great escape to use that energy for something positive.

So when I was asked to write the book, I really, I jumped on it. I think I was looking for something that could be a little bit of an escape. And I think that going through this process and using my story as something that could help other people, I think I’ve actually found a lot of healing in that process as well.

This was an opportunity that fell into my lap and I talked about that a little bit in the book. I call it a gift from the darkness, because we did end up with some tough circumstances.

And I think that when you open the door to allow the light to come in that there can be gifts that you get from these dark circumstances. And I truly believe that this book was once one of such opportunities for me.

Brian: Absolutely. That’s a great way of looking at it.

We’re already doing your blog at that time, or did that come after?

Leah: I had been blogging for about six years. And my editor, my developmental editor for the book, when I was doing my health coach training certification, I did a free workshop to a group of new moms.

And she was one of the first 10 people that I put on my mailing list.

I had no idea who she was, what she did, anything.

And so she had been following me for years.

And when Chelsea Green Publishing started publishing more Integrative Health books. What a lot of these integrative physicians are recommending is that people eliminate grains or gluten, dairy and sugar.

My family had slowly transition to that diet due to our health circumstances. And she had watched us go through this transformation and she thought, you know, she could write a book about this. And that’s how it all worked out.

So it really was just kind of this line of, I don’t even know what to call it, it’s just, fate seemed to work out.

Go to BrianJPombo.com/secrets.

As soon as we get these out there, you’re not going to want to miss this.

If you get in early enough, you can get a special deal. These are principles that never go away.

That’s BrianJPombo.com/secrets.

BrianJPombo.com/secrets and now back to the conversation.

Brian: Yeah, that’s beautiful. That’s so cool, how all these things lined up for you.

You enjoy the process of writing a book, the whole thing, everything from the writing, to the end all publishing?

Leah: I loved it. absolutely loved it.

Some of that was because my editor was fabulous. The editorial team, everybody I worked with Chelsea Green was just so easy to work with.

That’s some of why the process went so well. And some of it was because I do have these kids that every now and then they require a little bit of extra attention.

It’s hard for me to maintain a normal work schedule.

And with writing the book, I could shut it down when I needed to. And we had a couple of months while I was writing where my daughter ended up being extremely sick, I couldn’t focus on writing at that time.

I had to stop working because she required so much of my attention and my energy and she ended up getting admitted to the hospital, my son had had a pretty major and galactic reaction.

It’s just kind of a traumatic thing at times. And you know, it’s hard to pick yourself back up and just jump right back into work.

The book afforded me the opportunity to really give myself the space to take care of my kids and help them deal with the issues that they have. But then also to turn around and give myself what I needed, so that I could get back to being a good mom and a good author and doing all those pieces and I also just like writing I think that when you’re writing, you’re also learning.

I mean, the research that I did write that first chapter of looking up all the scientific information that was so much fun for me. I used to work in research and it’s like getting to use those skill set that I got to use before I was a mother and it just feeds something in you that doesn’t get fed in other ways.

Brian: Do you see yourself writing another book again someday?

Leah: I do play with that idea all the time.

Yeah, and I’m not quite, I have some ideas. One of the things that I also do that I feel that I do fairly well as gardening, I have considered writing a gardening book because I do post on Instagram and Facebook and all the social media outlets.

Some of the advice that I have for gardening and people are always joking asking when my gardening book is going to be released, but I’m not really sure I think for right now.

I’m really enjoying the process of having this book and it being out in the world and just the opportunity news that are coming from that. And so I think that there would be something in the future. I’m just not quite sure what that would be yet.

Brian: That’s great. So you had mentioned that you’re going to be speaking at the Mother Earth News Fair. And we’re specifically talking about the one in Albany, Oregon.

What are you going to be covering there?

Leah: I’ve got two talks for Albany. And the first one is going to be the art and mastery of meal planning and prep.

This is the talk where I discussed the system of how it is that you can cook efficiently making more meals from scratch.

When I designed this talk, I kind of wondered, you know, are people really that interested in listening to someone talk about meal planning and for an entire hour and the first time I gave this talk was in Asheville at the Mother Earth News Fair, and I had over 200 people show up.

I sold out of my book, I mean, it went really well.

And so it was encouraging to me to know that people want this information and that they are willing to sit there for a whole hour and learn how to cook more meals from scratch. And I thought that was just great that so many people are interested in this.

The second talk I’m giving is called belly biochemistry.

And this is a talk where I describe how digestion works, the role of microbes in your digestion. And then how it is that those microbes what we know about microbes and disease.

There’s so much new information on even in the soil environment, but I think people are starting to learn more and more about the benefits of microbes in the human gut and the soil and what it does for nutrition, disease and health. and there are a lot of gaps in this research.

But there’s still a lot of really interesting things that we do know. And that’s the information that I present during that talk. Part of being a someone who works in public health with my Master’s of Public Health is people in public health are trained to be the liaison between the science and the general public.

That’s what this talk is about for me is really taking this kind of difficult to understand scientific research and conveying it to layman in a way that they feel that they can apply it in their lives and that they can really understand some of the science that is new and upcoming.

Brian: So who are you hoping to reach with these presentations?

Who’s the ideal person that you’d like to connect with either through your presentation or in person?

Leah: That’s a great question. I mean, I feel like this information is for everyone.

But if I did have to get really specific, I would say that it’s generally for moms and dads who are feeling overwhelmed by all of the pressure of being a parent and working full time or part time and trying to raise kids. While also feeling that food is such an important piece of raising a healthy child yet it also feels like something that’s on tangible.

Because there are so many pressures on parents these days and it’s hard to be everywhere at once.

So my hope is that some of these parents can find this information and feel like they’ve got some strategies to accomplish some of their goals.

Brian: So why are you doing this?

You know, what do you get out of it?

Leah: I get super jazzed on public speaking.

I don’t know how else to describe it. But I love to teach.

I love getting new information. And I love turning that information into a usable form for people.

That it’s exciting to me to think that I can create a career out of teaching and helping people and providing people with the resources and the support and the information that they need to reach their goals.

Because there is just so much information out there and being able to sort through it and know where you can get reliable information can be really challenging.

And I feel that these speaking engagements, especially for things like Mother Earth News. When there are 10s of thousands of people there that you’re able to reach It’s an opportunity for me to provide them with the information that I feel like is most valuable.

And it’s just really fun. I love meeting people.

I am an extrovert to the core. And it’s fun for me to hear people’s stories, get to connect with them and provide them with some support.

Brian: How did you end up becoming a speaker for the Mother Earth News Fairs?

Did they reach out to you? Did you reach out to them?

Was this through your publisher?

How did it all begin?

Leah: It was through my publisher, which is interesting because I’ve attended Mother Earth News Fair for a number of years. Because Asheville is one of their big fairs and it’s only 45 minutes from my house and those have always been my weekend away from the kids.

I just go and I soak in all this like homesteading and gardening and I just love these fairs.

I remember when I was writing my book, I thought, you know, if I could speak at Mother Earth News Fairs, this would be like bucket list type material.

This would be, I will have arrived. If I get to Mother Earth News Fair, then my book came out on April 19.

The Mother Earth News Fair in Asheville was April 26.

And so Chelsea Green Publishing lined up my speaking gig.

It was like a dream come true. And I was only scheduled to speak at a couple of them.

But then the producer for the fairs asked me to come to Oregon and he’s interested in having me be more involved next year, which is especially exciting.

I know they’re doing one of the fairs at Polyface Farms in Virginia next year, which that will be an awesome opportunity just even see such a huge working farm.

Brian: Awesome. We have a lot of business owners and executives who listen, do you think it’d be worthwhile for them to plug into events like this?

Leah: I do, because I think that there’s so many people there that are interested in getting the tool sets and the products and information that they need to implement homesteading and healthy living.

There’s such a diversity of people who are there that are interested in different things.

I know that is specifically i’d spoken with some of the people that sell electric fences for chickens. And I know that Mother Earth News Fair are really great promotional tool for them, because you hear these speakers talking about all the benefits of raising your own meat and having your own eggs.

And you get really excited about the idea, and then hey, start walking around, you see these vendors?

Oh, here’s the guy that sells the electric fence. And, you know, maybe we should talk to him about getting started on our chickens.

So I think there’s a lot of energy and excitement around these new ideas at the fairs. And so showcasing the products that will help get people there. It is a good opportunity for those individuals.

Brian: That’s a great point, that common synergy that occurs in a location like that. That’s really interesting.

Have you gotten to travel much up until now to hit the other fairs?

I know you’re coming across country to go to the Oregon one.

Leah: Yeah, I’ve so far I’ve been to Asheville and Maryland and then I’m scheduled for Pennsylvania and Oregon. So those are the only four that I’m doing this year.

Brian: Oh fabulous.

Leah: Yeah.

Brian: You have any logistical tips for anyone that’s doing something similar or looking at being coming a speaker.

Leah: I used to travel a lot before I had kids and I feel like traveling feels pretty naturally to me. But I would say especially I guess I we went to Maryland with the kids, we decided we were outside of DC and we decided you know, let’s bring the kids it’ll be fun we said it actually did end up being fun.

It was a little bit hectic having them at the fair and I think what we realized from that was that if I am going to be traveling for work with the kids, my husband has to take them away from the work. While I’m doing the work and then we can all convene at the end of the day and and enjoy ourselves that way.

But if you go to my….if people are interested in seeing how I pack travel foods that is I have lots and lots of suggestions for that for the logistical piece of that because my son can eat out.

And so when we do travel, we pack all of our foods, I do have some information in my cookbook as well.

But I have a specific one of the highlights on my Instagram page for Deep Rooted Wellness.

If you go to travel foods, you will see how I have this system of freezing jars and having fresh food in jars and how you can pack an entire cooler with food. And that has this built in cooling mechanism so that it will stay cold for as long as you need it to.

Then the other benefits of packing all your food wherever you go is that you don’t have to prepare food when you’re there.

And you save money but not having to buy it. So if people are interested in food logistics, I happen to be an expert.

Brian: That is great. I can’t wait to show my wife that she’ll really get a kick out of that. This was great. We keep going. I’d love to have you back on the show in the future. If you’d be up for it.

Just what could a listener do that’s interested in finding out more about you maybe get their hands on your cookbook and everything. Where’s the best place for them to go?

Leah: The best place would be for them to visit my website at DeepRootedWellness.com, there’s a link for my cookbook where you can find it in Canada, UK and international link in the US there’s a lot of options for purchasing it.

I would suggest that people go there and they can also get a kind of a preview of what it is it’s in the book and what type of information they that they couldn’t anticipate seeing in there.

Then if they want to follow me on Facebook, especially Instagram, I share a lot of information on there.

Just trying to give people tips and especially with gardening right now because the summer is such a garden heavy time. I try to show people really simple things that can make a big difference in their productivity.

Brian: So cool. Hey, thanks so much for being on the Off The Grid Biz Podcast.

We’ll see you out in Albany, Oregon.

Leah Webb and everyone if you missed that, that’s DeepRootedWellness.com.

Leah: Thanks so much for having me and you’re gonna have to come find me and say hey, when we get there.

Brian: Definitely will.

Leah: Alright, sounds great. Thanks, Brian.

Brian’s Closing Thoughts: Yeah, Leah was really cool interview, really cool person.

And the word that keeps coming to mind when I think of her is, sharp. She’s just very sharp.

She’s to the point.

She’s very thorough in her analysis and the way she describes things really had a good time can’t wait to talk to her again, I’m going to point out just a few things that she said that I thought is worth looking even closer at. She mentioned how her book reflects her personality.

And I think this is something that everyone should strive for.

If you decide to set out and write a book, get a book published, have it reflect your personality, not just obviously, in the words itself, but in the style in what you cover.

If you tend to be all over the place, let your book be all over the place a little bit. If people reflect with you, they’re going to reflect more with the book and vice versa, if people are getting to know you through the book, they are going to get to know your personality as you are.

This is why I very much recommend the audio way of writing a book.

In other words, recording yourself talking the book out first, before you go through and clean it up and make it read nicely.

That way, you’re really reflecting your own vocabulary, and your own personality a whole lot more.

I doubt that’s the way that she wrote the book. But if you’re looking for a way to really have your book reflect your personality, that’s a great way of doing it.

I love it when she said, it’s exciting that I can create a career out of teaching and helping people.

This is very much a theme that you hear running through all of the conversations that we’ve been having with speakers from the Mother Earth News Fairs. Those people who have been doing it a while, are still enthralled with the fact that they’re able to do something they love and get paid for it.

Another thing to focus on even if you’ve already been in business for awhile. Find those things that you do best.

Find those things that you love to do best within your business, and focus more on those, outsource the rest of it, find a way to automate the rest of it and keep doing what you’re best at and get better at it.

I love how she mentioned the synergy of the events. I can’t wait to see that myself at this point in time we still haven’t been so I can’t wait to see how that synergy actually plays out in front of you.

Her comment about having a gift from the darkness.

In other words, finding the silver lining and the clouds if that’s not too cliche, well, here’s another cliche making lemons from lemonade. This is the entrepreneurial mindset that I love about these people to begin with.

And people like Leah, the ones that can recognize it in themselves, the ones that can see that, yes, my children have these food issues, but I’m going to learn from it. I’m going to strive above it.

I’m not going to complain about it. We’re going to work around it.

And after working around it, she found a way to be able to pass that knowledge on to other people and make their lives better.

That’s the beautiful thing about being a true hearted business person, a person that can use tragedy to not only their benefit, but the benefit of yourself.

Are you running against tragedy in your life that you’re not looking at how you can use it to help other people about how you can learn through it?

It’s a good lesson to remember a gift from the darkness. I love that.

Overall, our conversation really speaks for itself. So many great nuggets in there.

Can’t wait to meet Leah at the Mother Earth News Fair in Albany, Oregon, and can’t wait for you to hear all the other conversations that we have coming up.

I’m Brian Pombo and until next time, I wish you peace, freedom, and success.

Andy Brennan – Aaron Burr Cider

Posted on July 27, 2019March 30, 2020 by brianjpombo@hotmail.com

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

Subscribe: RSS | More

Episode 011.

Do you truly love what you do as a business? Is your passion so clear to others that it’s undeniable?

Andy Brennan is truly passionate about his craft and trade. Andy is the founder and owner of Aaron Burr Cider and author of Uncultivated: Wild Apples, Real Cider, and the Complicated Art of Making a Living.

A life-long artist, Andy did not set out to be a wild apple cidermaker (though always intrigued by the fruit), a writer nor a speaker. His publisher, Chelsea Green Publishing, were able to seduce him to attend and speak at the Mother Earth News Fair being held in Albany, Oregon. Due to his interest in visiting Oregon, (he admits a desire to interview some Pacific coast trees) he unknowingly was set on a direct course to be interviewed by Brian J. Pombo for the Off-the-Grid Biz Podcast.

How does a struggling artist end up becoming an apple farmer? How does he stand out in the growing and crowded cider market?

The way Andy mixes his business with his philosophy, while continuing an uncompromising life is instructive and liberating to any searching or struggling entrepreneur. Listen now!

Find out more about Andy Brennan: http://aaronburrcider.com/

Find out the business events secrets for growing and strengthening ANY company: http://brianjpombo.com/secrets/

Full Transcript

Brian: Have you found any way around that yourself?

Andy: For sure. The best solution is always to build intimate relationships with customers which ask questions and you know, certainly large companies, they don’t have the time or the inclination to have one on one relationships with their customers.

Even though I said I’m an introvert, I can’t hide from the fact that bonding with my customers is the only thing that that’s going to save, I think people like me from actually becoming road kill to bigger, faster and cheaper.

Podcast Intro: If you’re someone who refuses to go along to get along, if you question whether the status quo was good enough for you and your family. If you want to leave this world better off than you found it and you consider independence a sacred thing. You may be a prepper, a gardener, a homesteader, a survivalist, or a farmer or rancher, an environmentalist or a rugged outdoorsman.

We are here to celebrate you whether you’re looking to improve your Maverick business or to find out more about the latest products and services available to the weekend rebel.

Brian: A homestead farmer who began making cider in 2007 from wild apples. After rising to national prominence with his cider company, Aaron Burr Cider. He wrote a book Uncultivated, which just came out.

Andy Brennan, welcome to The Off The Grid Biz Podcast.

Andy: Thank you. It’s great to be talking to you, it’s an honor.

Brian: Yeah. So, who are you, and just let us know a little about what you do?

Andy: My name is Andy Brennan and I am a homestead farmer, Apple farmer and cider maker. The town of Wurtsboro, New York, which is 75 miles North and West of New York city.

It’s in the foothills, the first few mountains as you’re approaching the Catskill mountains and we’re very close to the Hudson Valley. But in terms of a cultural region, we’re more associated with the Catskills.

Brian: So how did you end up here? What’s your life story up to this point?

Andy: Well, I was an artist first. That’s what brought me to New York city from originally I’m from the Washington D C area. And after art school, I ended up in New York.

Like a lot of people ended up living on couches for 10 years, trying to be the, you know, famous artists or whatever.

Eventually I got jobs working in architecture that at least pays little or as the art wasn’t working out.

After finding a sort of a love for Apple trees, I then looked for land near New York City where I can, grow apples.

Brian: Very cool. So what form of art were you interested in?

Andy: Well, I’m a painter and ever since I was a kid, I excelled, I guess in art, but also perhaps at the expense of being extremely bad at all the other subjects. It was kind of the one field in which I showed any talent for.

I’ve always been encouraged, I suppose, on that level to draw and paint. That’s how I ended up in art school.

But, uh, I’d say I’m not, I’m currently innovative paint as an artist. I’m inspired by people like Sazon who just looked at his work and say it’s just about the act of seeing transcribing, um, that act of seen on a painting or on a canvas.

So it’s not, I guess you would say I am. I worked from life and it’s somewhat realistic.

Brian: Very cool. You’ve written a new book, like we mentioned the full title Uncultivated: wild apples, real cider and the complicated art of making a living. So tell us about that.

Andy: Uncultivated is my original title was a book in which I wanted to describe my, methodology as an Apple grower and why I feel like that’s important to cider making.

The subtitle is – wild apples, real cider, which is an ancient drink, to distinguish it from the modern sort of a hard cider that most people are familiar with and the complicated art of making a living.

It’s a reference to what it’s like to be an Apple grower and cider maker at a small homestead farm level.

I should mention that subtitle was proposed and we loved it by a man by the name of Ben Watson, who’s not just my editor. He’s also the publisher of one of the most popular cider books out there.

But he’s also the guy who organized the Cider Days, which is the nation’s largest cider event. I worked very close with him on the book and I owe him a great deal of gratitude because I’m not a writer, I’m a farmer.

Brian: So what led you to write the book in the first place?

Andy: Well, originally I wanted to explain sort of the 101’s to people. I get at the farmer’s market all the time, People asking like, how do you make cider?

Or what makes these apples different than conventional apples?

And I wanted to explain that or give it the full space to thrive. What makes it different and what is cider and all those things.

But, there’s another reason and I think this is really what I ultimately was fueled by when I wrote book. Well, I want to show people what to look at, what to see when they see cider, what types of businesses and farms are growing apples.

In keeping with the ancient tradition of cider and, a world that modernity has really overlooked. I find it stunningly beautiful.

The cider world, the Apple world, these old homestead farms. And I wanted to paint that picture for people so that they know what they’re looking at when they approach cider.

Brian: Excellent. So did you enjoy the process of writing a book and getting it published?

Andy: I really did. It was…I’ve been writing blog journals now for 10 years, which is just more like a diary that I would publish. And I think there’s like two readers. I’ve been doing that for a long time.

When approached by my editor about writing a book, my original thought was that I would take all these blog posts, many of which weren’t even published. They’re just on my computer and I would sort of create a narrative which tied them together.

But it morphed into something different as I was writing it and it was just absolutely obsessed writing for on average, 12 hours a day for every day, for, for a year.

Brian: Wow.

Andy: I never got tired. I woke up and I just couldn’t wait to get writing again. So yeah, I really enjoyed it.

I should also say the last year when I did write, it was an off year for Apple, so there was literally nothing to do on the farm, so I really lucked out that way.

Brian: Yeah, that’s useful. Do you see yourself writing another one in the future?

Andy: Maybe.

Right now I don’t. It feels good to be a done with that project and I’m just in love with being out in the orchard right now. The same sort of passion I had for writing last year is right now, it’s just applied to my orchard and not excited about making cider this fall.

I just want to spend every moment working with the trees. And, um, so that’s where my energy is now, although I do have ideas that are brewing so it might happen.

Brian: Yeah. You’re slated to present at the Mother Earth News. Fair. One of the main reasons how we found you. What are you planning to be covering? Especially in, I guess you’re going to be in Albany, Oregon, which is the one that I’m going to.

Andy: The thing I’m most known for is wild apples because it’s 75% of all the cider I make is from wild Apple.

So they’re not even on my farm. And I wanted to discuss wild apples and what makes them different, which is such an enormous topic.

Again, I kind of want to introduce people, wild apples to tell them about what makes them so special. So it’s going to hinge on that. And I’ll talk about what they mean to cider, what they mean to a homestead farmer, what they mean to businesses even.

Which are, like I said, it’s all that’s all tied to the book, but an introduction to wild apples and what makes them so important. Because they are to a human.

So that’s one topic and the other I’ve just been asked to do another talk the following day on cider, which really does need its own full focus.

The second day I’ll be talking about, making cider and the 101’s and the history of it and that stuff.

Brian: Have you been to any of these before? These Mother Earth News Fairs, and have you presented on them?

Andy: I’ve never been to the Mother Earth News Fairs. In the Northeast here we have these organizations called Maca and, and Nopa and these are statewide and Northeast organic conferences.

And there’s one in Maine called the Common Ground Fair, which is I think very, very similar to the Mother Earth News Fair, which is largely small scale farmers and homesteaders.

Involves everything from, you know, seminars on solar energy and siphon by hand. Same sort of demographic and these are my people.

We just don’t have a Mother Earth News Fair in our area.

I’ve been excited to be a part of it. And I’ve read that magazine since I was in my twenties, long ago.

So yeah, it’s right up my alley.

Brian: What do you hope people are going to get from watching your presentations?

Andy: I hope they’re inspired to make cider and, if not cider, wine or whatever fruit grows in their area. I really don’t want to live in a world where it’s just specialists to do one thing that’s part of living on a homestead farm.

You don’t just tap your maple trees or grow vegetables and sell eggs and have honey. You do all those things, rather than just one.

I’m hoping to inspire people to embrace what is, I guess, my specialty in cider.

I’m not fond of calling myself a cider maker.

That’s just one of many things that I do, but I want people to realize just how simple and natural it is and hopefully they’ll making it and become part of this, tradition themselves.

Go to BrianJPombo.com/secrets. We are going to be putting out helpful materials on how you can use events to grow your business. When you go to this page, you will either see our latest programs or if you make it there early enough, you will see an email address, capture page, put in your email address and we will be sure and update you.

As soon as we get these out there, you’re not going to want to miss this. If you get in early enough, you can get a special deal. These are principles that never go away.

That’s BrianJPombo.com/secrets. BrianJPombo.com/secrets and now back to the conversation.

Brian: So why are you doing this? Why are you coming out to present?

You’re going all the way across country and everything else. What do you hope to get out of it personally?

Andy: Well, there’s a lot of reasons why I wanted to go to Oregon.

One is I have a great number of my cider customers are in Oregon and I think the demographic of that state is sympathetic to what it is I’m doing. So they’ve always been interested in my cider and sold around the state.

I have like minded people and so on the cider front, I’ve wanted to do that. And my publisher also, has asked me to promote the book and I….selling stuff is not my specialty and I feel it makes me nervous but I’ve agreed at least to do, four or five events to promote the book.

This is really an opportunity to accomplish many things or let’s use a phrase, to shoot you birds with one stone.

But this is more like five birds, a lot of things that are all coming together for this.

Brian: Very cool.

Are you going to have some time to check out the rest of Oregon while you’re out here?

Andy: Yes.

I have a couple of days. My distributor who’s a company I should mention as console on, they mostly distribute line, Ian is his name.

He’s lined up some accounts that I should visit and I think we’re going to do a couple of tastings at the swine or restaurants and he’s going to show me what I should be looking at and people were going to be able to try your cider, that are already out there now with that distributor.

And I’m toying with the idea of bringing some very, very odd ciders, although it’s going to be hard to bring them while traveling.

But yeah, they’ll be able to drink that at the fair.

Also there’s a couple of wines stores that are doing pourings where I’ll be talking as well. I know I’ll be in Portland, and a couple of other towns up there. I’m drawing a blank on where they are, but certainly the fair and then a couple of places around Portland and perhaps further.

If anyone listening is interested, my website probably says that, which is AaronBurrCider.com, and there’s an events page.

Brian: We’ll link to it in the description too. Tell us about that name Aaron Burr Cider, how’d you come up with that?

Andy: Do you know Aaron Burr?

Brian: Yeah, I’m a history buff so. Lol!

Andy: Oh wow. My wife and I are real history buffs too. And we moved to this farm, which was bought by William Brown and 1817.

The Browns had it in their family as the homestead farm for 150 years. As we were researching the deed, when we took it over, we were intrigued by the lawyer who wrote the deed and that was Aaron Burr.

And this was 1817.

And we we’re thinking, you know, could this be the actual, Aaron Burr, who shot Hamilton?

And sure enough, as we did the research, his political career was over at the time and he returned to law and that’s what he did for the next 30 years.

He, mostly sold property deeds. Back in 1817, there were huge properties that were getting divided and sold to homestead farmers. It was a lot of need for that type of a paternity.

Brian: Wow! That is…that’s quite a cool story to go along with the product. That’s great.

Andy: If I could also say we wanted a local name who represented the area, which we very much believed is the prime time or the peak of cider production, not just in America but in the world, which was just after the revolutionary war in the early 18 hundreds.

Cider production in America was just…..the only thing I could think of it as an analogy would be, like 15th century Florence, when there were artists in every loft.

I mean, every town had a cider maker and the Apple cultivation, was just at its peak then.

Brian: Have you got the travel module promoting the book you’re putting on presentations?

Have you got to travel a whole lot, I imagine Oregon’s probably the farthest you’ve traveled, right?

Andy: Yeah. Short of resisting traveling, promoting because after writing the book, like I mentioned, I’m really just in love with farming again and I want to get into the groove and give the trees the attention that they might not have had last year.

So I’ve been resisting it and I only have maybe four or five events lined up before the big harvest this September.

Brian: Well that’s great.

I think what you’re saying is pretty common, especially in this industry and in this niche. A lot of people, they have their own place and traveling is kind of outside of their realm, having to travel a whole lot, especially if they’re interested in what’s going on at home.

You have any logistical tips, anything that for people to keep in mind while they’re traveling, especially if they’re resistant to it?

Andy: I need a lot of alone time. That’s the plight of the introvert.

I just, I love engaging with people and telling people about wild apples and cider if they’re interested in that. And, I didn’t really love it, but my interaction with people…I’m sort of like a cell phone battery.

I go out and then after maybe about two hours or three hours, I just crash and I need to be alone and recharge.

So, you know, that I think is a textbook definition of an introvert and that I need that. And if I have that then, I like to travel.

I’m really excited to see just how apple’s also are adjusting to the soil out there compared to, you know, I know it’s a very different climate, but a different soil structure and I’m used to the Northeast apples so I want to interview some trees while I’m out there.

Brian: Yeah, I think that’s really good tip, especially for people who are more introverted to be able to have that set on their schedule ahead of time. So it’s not completely miserable the entire trip. I really appreciate your time with us.

Could you tell us if a listener is interested in finding out more about you, your book, about Aaron Burr Cider, where’s the best place for them to go?

Andy: Well, our home page, Aaron Burr Cider is really a directory to all the different projects, which includes the book and the cider.

I want to say that it’s not just us. I mean there’s so many other great cider producers out there and small farmers.

I was really, really lucky to have a lot of attention thrust on me, early on as cider was sort of taking off.

In some ways. It’s not fair.

My trees are my trees and somebody else has their trees and the way we all have a relationship to the land. And, I appreciate the focus and the interest from customers.

But, I would say any local, Apple farmer is deserving of that attention.

And, um, I think it’s a local drink.

I appreciate customers far and wide interested in our cider, but, ultimately I think it’s about people bonding to their region, their land.

So, I encourage people to really dig, because the small producers are out there. They just haven’t been as lucky as I am in terms of reaching the people.

Ultimately, I hope that’s what brings them back to apples.

Because you know, the nation, we were all Apple growers and we need to be, we need to be again, so many great lessons there.

Brian: Absolutely. And are you still doing your blog journal? Are you keeping up on that?

Andy: Yeah, I still do about a post every two months or so. And that was always my case.

I keep a lot to myself because I feel like sometimes I’m just a curmudgeon, just jaded and depressed by what’s happening in the modern world. And so I often, I’ll write something, I’ll give it about a week before and if I think there’s something positive, I’ll publish it. But a great number of my rants don’t go unpublished.

Brian: Can people reach that from the Aaron Burr Cider website?

Andy: That’s also linked to the website.

We have all these weird projects because like I mentioned, I’ve got an art background.

I have something known as The Aaron Burrlesque, which is supposed to be the antidote to Hamilton, the play, which any anti-federalist knows to be federalist propaganda.

So, The Aaron Burrlesque is the additional anecdote to…I think his name is Lin-Manuel Miranda, his famous Hamilton play.

That’s a photo series, that’s on the website.

The blog is attached to the website.

We have a whole line of underwear, which is a really long story. People wanted us to advertise our logo on shirts or something like that because we have a neat logo. Has the old gun, the duel gun. And I’m opposed to the sort of corporate advertisement in public.

So we came up with the underwear and I said, well, if you’re going to wear our logo, nobody’s going to be able to see it.

So we have that because they’re all just art projects, really.

Brian: It’s great that you allow yourself to be so expressive and to find new ways to be able to put things out there and just kind of follow passions the way you do, it’s really refreshing.

What makes wild apples and wild Apple cider, so uniquely different that comes straight from a domestic orchard?

Andy: This is a long story, but I’m going to try to say as fast and I’ll say with each sentence it can unfold into a huge topic on its own.

But my interest in wild apples as a farmer is that they exist unsprayed and apples are the most sprayed crop in America. And there one of the most in the world.

They’re extremely manipulated and they have to be because about 150 years ago, we’ve kind of stopped the evolution of the Apple.

Meanwhile, every other disease and insect has been keeping pace. And, now these trees are sitting ducks.

So that sort of describes your conventional orchard, um, monocrop environments, which is what is now a sitting duck for diseases and insects, which can destroy your crop and literally kill the tree.

A wild Apple is an Apple tree, which has figured out how to acclimate to the environment. And it’s a very diverse environment.

Here in the Northeast, they’re everywhere.

They’re along the roads and old pastures and they don’t get any of that attention and yet they still survive.

So that’s one way to describe a wild apple, but just even genetically, it’s very different than a farmed apple.

This is fascinating. And um, and every single Apple are five seeds in every single seed, it’s going to become genetically its own variety.

So whereas in your grocery store, you have five varieties that we all know, golden, delicious and red delicious and McIntosh apple. In every single Apple, are five new varieties that this world has never seen.

And then on just one tree alone, there is, on a good year, there might be a thousand Apples.

So that’s 5,000 varieties that this world has never seen.

And the point of that is to put as much heat out in the world and see what survives and what type of genetics are needed for that, for where that seed just happens to end up.

That’s not done on farms.

What happens on a farm is they fall in a particular variety, let’s say a Granny Smith and they’ll take a piece of wood from the original Granny Smith, which is a variety and they just graph that onto the root system of hundreds and thousands and now hundreds of thousands if not millions of trees.

So that what grows above that graft union is just one variety, Granny Smith. And every single wild apple tree, if it’s a from seed, it’s going to be its own variety.

Brian: Wow!

Andy: I should also mention that genetically they are infinitely more diverse than humans and humans have not cloned or at least to say that we’ve never had two humans exactly the same on the planet.

So I find that, alarming that something that as sophisticated as an apple tree is not able to given the green light to express itself genetically.

Nor is it allowed to defend itself or acclimate to various environments.

I’m telling you about apple trees and sadly as is true of pretty much everything, from farmed animals to farm crops. Apple trees are particularly diverse and I believe they might be the most genetically diverse plant in the plant kingdom.

Brian: That is really interesting. You know, I’ve heard it expressed on occasion some pieces of that, but I’ve never heard it said quite that way. That’s really interesting.

Is there anything else that you want to cover?

Andy: We’d like to say something about, I don’t know how to do this and even after writing the book, I still don’t know how to do this, how to really say what I find is important about running a business in the modern world because we have the economy is constantly going up.

Costs of living are constantly going up.

And as a business owner, usually it’s just assumed you’re going to be larger next year than you are this year.

But that doesn’t really apply to a farmer. You can’t enlarge your farm.

You have a relationship with the land and a limited amount of acreage or so or a limited amount of trees.

And there’s an economy to be worked out on every homestead farm on how to survive and how to maximize what you wait and get from your farm. But in the end, that’s not the larger economy just demand so much more.

So there’s a real disconnect between farming sustainably and that includes cider that includes, fur sure, apples and particularly the old versions…or I should say the real versions of the apple seedling tree.

All these things are in direct competition or I should say out there that they’re so easily or antiquated by a world where everything is a cheap and expanding and homogenizing and it’s really, we live in a world where efficiency is King and expansion is King.

Those are not applicable principles for what I feel like is real cider and real apple growing in the end.

Agriculture is about a relationship and I think that I tried to cover that in the book. I don’t know exactly how to do it, how to give that limited scale business, just deserts.

So what I did, at least in the book is I really tried to focus on the people and the culture around me in the farm and hopefully the reader empathizes and will understand just what’s at risk or what sort of just overrun by the modern expanding economy.

Brian: Do you have any clue as to what possible solutions might be to some of that? Have you found any way around that yourself?

Andy: For sure, the best solution is always to build intimate relationships with customers.

Which ask questions, and you know, certainly large companies, they don’t have the time or the inclination to have one-on-one relationships with their customers.

So yeah, even though I said, I’m an introvert, I can’t hide from the fact that that’s bonding with my customers is the only thing that that’s going to save, I think people like me from essentially becoming roadkill to a bigger and bigger and faster and cheaper.

Brian: Wow!

That is a very, very, very important point there that you just made. I hope everybody that’s listening catches that because it’s such a simple concept, but that one thing, like you said, it’s the thing that the big guys can’t do, even if they have an inclination too.

They’re not able to do what the smaller operation can do in terms of having that one-on-one relationship.

So that’s really important. That’s a really great point.

And your book plays into that too because you’re helping to educate and like you mentioned, kind of answer the questions that people already had about the process.

Have you found that to be true?

Have you gotten feedback as far as that from your customers or future customers?

Andy: Yeah, I can’t believe how much people seem to like the book.

You know, I’ve even been mistaken as a professional writer.

So yeah, I’ve been fortunate that way that I think the book was a success. And, every year I make cider and some years it’s fantastic.

But I don’t know how I did it and it just happened that way and I could never repeat it. And that’s really how writing the book was. I think it is good, but I have no idea how I could ever do it again.

Brian: Well that’s great. I mean, if you’ve been able to achieve that much with one book, that’s a huge deal that so many people go through their lives, including business owners and homesteaders that never get to do anything like that.

So that’s fabulous that you’ve been able to reach out like that and been able to make a difference.

Andy: I want to share that attention with all small apple farmers and cider makers and encourage everybody to dig deep and find those local resources.

Because like I said, I’m just one of literally thousands around the country.

Brian: Absolutely. Well, fabulous.

Hey, thanks so much for being on the show, Andy.

This is a lot to chew on and you’ve got so much information and such a depth of thought put into everything that you do that we’d love to have you on the show in the future sometime. And in the meantime, look forward to meeting you out at The Mother Earth News Fair In Albany Oregon.

Thanks again for being on the Off The Grid Biz Podcast.

Andy: Well thank you. Thank you for your podcast. I’m looking forward to meeting you.

Brian’s Closing Thoughts: Andy’s a really sweet, really smart guy. Lots of fun to talk to. A lot of this conversation went back in my mind to the importance of understanding your own nature.

If you happen to be a nonconformist, if you happen to be an introvert and allowing room to continue being who you are, just like he talked about, allowing time to just be alone while he’s out and traveling, it really comes down to know thyself.

I think it’s cool how he has this history, this background story to the name of his cider, Aaron Burr Cider.

It’s great to have those types of things. I know he didn’t do it on purpose, but the fact that it came about and he’s taken advantage of that, that shows a lot of ingenuity along with all the different ways that he’s able to be artistic and be himself and be able to express himself even in ironic ways when it came to putting his brand out there on underwear and everything else. It’s just very funny. Very cool.

Right toward the end, the point he made about relationships, about really having that one-on-one with your customers and how the larger corporations and brands, they can’t compete with that.

You could bring something completely different and be able to have that one on one relationship and be able to be an actual person to your customers.

Not just a personality, but be a real person, someone they can talk to on the phone or communicate via email.

I think that’s important and it ties in so great with his book because his book puts himself out there.

It’s him spending hours and hours and hours putting this book together. I mean that talk about blood, sweat and tears.

I can’t wait to get into that book.

It his passion for a worthwhile cause. He has this concept of the way that it was the way we should be paying attention to our agriculture and our plants.

It’s important to have that. It’s important to be able to voice that and have that be tied to your brand also so that people who either already have that cause in mind can be connected with you and your brand and also it brings other people who have liked your cider.

Now they can come in and learn this story.

That’s something they would not have known otherwise and you can bring new people into the cause. Overall, I expect really big things from Andy Brennan in the future and can’t wait to try his cider at The Mother Earth News Fair.

Outro: Join us again on the next off the grid is podcast brought to you by the team at BrianJPombo.com, helping successful but overworked entrepreneurs, transform their companies into dream assets.

That’s BrianJPombo.com.

Our theme music is Cold Sun by Dell. Our executive producer and head researcher is Sean E Douglas.

I’m Brian Pombo and until next time, I wish you peace, freedom, and success.

Off-the-Grid Biz Podcast

Stories for the Self-Reliant!

Tag: chelsea-green-publishing

Jesse Frost: The Living Soil Handbook | The No-Till Market Garden Podcast

Show Notes

Transcription

Gianaclis Caldwell – Pholia Farm

Transcription

Jereme Zimmerman – Make Mead Like A Viking

Full Transcript

Michael Foley – Farming for the Long Haul

Full Transcript

Leah Webb – Deep Rooted Wellness

Full Transcript

Andy Brennan – Aaron Burr Cider