Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Episode 25.
This is “Part 2.” Be sure to listen to “Part 1” here: https://offthegridbiz.com/rick-elara-bowman-backyard-green-films-part-1
Do you use events (topic-based and trade shows) to grow your business and interact with customers? Is it worth the expense and time?
Rick Bowman is audio and video producer. Elara Bowman is a project manager and accountant. Together they have teamed up to travel country to record and promulgate the stories of incredible people and a monumental dilemma that everyone.
Here we continue the conversation we began on the last episode and dive deep into attending events and long-term goals.
Listen Now!
- Find out more about Rick, Elara and Backyard Green Films: https://backyardgreenfilms.com/
- Watch their videos on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnQm6NOFcMrvJQrv09Xzt6w
Find out the business events secrets for growing and strengthening ANY company: http://brianjpombo.com/secrets/
Full Transcript
Rick: First off, having the film out there is to me the biggest thing.
Elara: Yes, my big thing too.
Rick: Because I feel like that will open up our audience a little bit more towards maybe wanting to listen to our podcast as well going and maybe becoming more interested in heritage breeds and seeing some of our clips of interviews that we’ve put up on our YouTube channel. Hopefully what I’m thinking with the film is that it’ll be able to venture off and be able to make another film that continues the story of heritage breeds and of farmers.
Podcast Intro: If you’re someone who refuses to go along to get along, if you question whether the status quo was good enough for you and your family.
If you want to leave this world better off than you found it and you consider independence a sacred thing.
You may be a prepper, a gardener, a homesteader, a survivalist, or a farmer or rancher, an environmentalist or a rugged outdoorsman.
We are here to celebrate you whether you’re looking to improve your maverick business or to find out more about the latest products and services available to the weekend rebel.
From selling chicken eggs online, to building up your food storage or collecting handmade soap.This show is for those who choose the road less traveled the road to self-reliance for those that are living a daring adventure, life off the grid.
Brian: Looking back on just what you’ve done up until now going to events like the Mother Earth News Fair, like the Heirloom Expo, would you recommend other people plug into the same type of events?
Elara: I think it’s very individual depending on the type of business they have. And here’s one of the problems that has occurred. I mean is anybody in business knows we are going through a fundamental shift in not only the way we do business, how we do business, how we finance, how we market, there’s a huge shift. And I would say businesses have to be really really agile in order to adapt quickly.
Because a lot of storefronts are going out of business because you know, people don’t come in the door anymore. You just order it online.
You know, you might have strategic partnerships between similar businesses are completely different businesses and you really have to stay up on that in order to be able to compete with people that can.
In a way, our experience has been very similar to the animals you have to adapt to survive, you have to and you won’t make it if you don’t.
But the ones that do have might have quite a bit to offer.
So we think that businesses now have to look at your model, look at at your market and then maybe it may or may not pencil on the momentary basis, but on the long run, it might bring more to you.
So you might be a business that’s a essential oil company. Do I need to go into a fair to show my product?
I would almost say you do because it’s a scent oriented thing.
And you will get people that need to do that experiential moment and smell and or maybe touch fabric product. You have to get it out there.
Either that are you going to ship it somewhere and have people rave about it.
And then you’re going to have to do this thing where you ship back and forth. So I think it really depends on the business model.
But I think you really, you have to be able to be agile to decide the short term goal and the long term goal and it is not a cheap thing to do to go to fairs and events and things like that.
But you have to be able to say, what will that add value to my company, my product, is it in your decision?
Rick: I think it’s good to go to the fairs whether that be the Mother Earth News Fair, the Heirloom Expo, the Weston A. Price convention, any of those because most of the people that are at the fair in the same boat we are at, they are looking for their core audience.
And so I think certain fares are that core audience for a few hundred bucks to rent a booth. It’s worth it because you’re going to have people coming by.
I will say from us on a filmmaking standpoint and a podcast standpoint, we had a lot of people stopping by asking what our podcast was about, us getting to discuss what our upcoming film was about.
And I take it from the approach of I don’t know if how many people out there are familiar with the film Endless Summer.
It was a documentary about two guys that filmmaker followed.
And they served the summer going. They traveled all around the world to keep surfing. I don’t know if you’re familiar with classic.
Brian: Yeah.
Rick: So Bruce Brown, who made that film, in a way did it is grassroots. He did the film. And then he took it to the audience. He rented theaters, and showed it for one night.
And that’s the way I kind of look at the documentary filmmaking and getting it to the audience that is going to be interested in this film.
Then when we’re done with that, we will probably try to do something similar where we take it out on the road, as well as hopefully did other distribution. But get it out there to bring it to our audience.
And instead of getting stuck in there with all the other films, the thousands of films and documentaries that come out every year, and people looking to flicks or somewhere streaming, I want to take it out there to them.
Elara: I would also say that, at least in my experience, it’s a networking experience as well.
So if you’re a business and you’re thinking about going to one of these fairs, I mean, we met so many people that are interested in same things we are and a good number of them have businesses, it’s not just the consumers going anymore.
It’s almost like a huge trade show in a way.
So used to be just homesteaders that would come to one of these or at the seed fair, maybe at the Heirloom Expo, it was just a seed people and people that want some, oh, I have an animal or two.
And to me, that’s a great value. That’s why we initially went the first place to, I think, is because we have chickens and but there’s a networking value because you’re meeting people with like ideals and with businesses that are in the similar vein.
You’re making connections in a way that you otherwise might not be able to make because there’s so much information out there on the internet and there’s so much visibility anybody can start an Instagram account.
Now, anybody can start a Facebook page. But the people that are actually willing to go to a fair and walk around and talk to people, that’s a very specific niche.
Brian: Absolutely. You brought up traveling so much. And I’m sure the two of you could probably write a book on travel tips, but could you give us some off the hand, logistics that perhaps someone could use if they’re going to be be traveling to events like this?
Elara: Events or interviews?
Brian: Either one, yeah.
Elara: It’s both for us.
Brian: Kind of time all together.
Rick: Like the person you’re traveling with?
Elara: Yes.
The first thing to do is to try it as far as I’m concerned, you have to yes, like the person you’re traveling with, and hope that your marriage is solid enough to cover being with them in a car for the next two weeks.
But I would say as much as you can put in a short period of time in terms of business, as you can, that’s a huge thing.
So for us, we went to the fair in Albany, we put a an interview on the day after we were at the fair we went to buy the wheat farm and book to the gal about the her Jacob Sheeps fantastic, great experience.
It’s a little exhausting because you do two days of a fair, you do a day of a setup beforehand day, the fair.
Second day, the fair and then an interview on the third day, the fair you get there on Friday night and you set up for the fair. We have a little teardrop trailer, which is where we could have sold that thing 50 times over at the fair cuz it’s a very cute little teardrop travel trailer. Little retro one.
But you know, you set that up, you put your booth together and it takes a couple hours with that.
Preparation is really really important before you get there.
So when you do come in on Friday night, you can just go boom, boom, boom and set it up. And then you two days of the fair and then Sunday night you break it down, same kind of thing.
Put it away, make sure your stuff is together, make sure you’re not leaving anything and then get up and go again.
So as many things as you can put into one trip, you’re much better off in terms of your cost savings,
Rick: We decided that we would drive up to Albany for the Mother Earth News Fair because in our booth, we do like to have our travel trailer there the little teardrop trailer as part of the display. Because for the most part, we do drive to a lot of the interviews.
But if it is something that’s on the East Coast, or Canada, and it might be a little too far for us to drive, we have flown and when we do go somewhere like Elara touched on, I would say the biggest point is trying to maximize your trip as much as possible.
As far as for us, it’s getting as many interviews that we can film and record while we’re there. And in the short amount of time.
Elara: Yeah, so that would be the first thing is logistics. So I guess to consolidate my long and involved get your logistics down upfront.
Rick does most of our printing reproduction, he gets the booth booth items ready before he goes and he starts a month out. So that would be the first thing I would do make sure that you’re planning logistics are taking care of advertising marketing calls. For us, we have to do production, we start what two months out with that?
Rick: Lots of times at least a month to two months to get prepped for the interviews.
And when we are traveling to a trade show, again, we try to just not be going to the trade show. So we set up those appointments, whether we’re driving or flying in. And we usually try to do one or two interviews before a fair and probably filling it and do another interview or two after the fair before we travel back, plus whatever interviews or talking points that we’re trying to do while we’re at the fair.
Elara: So we did two on Thursday, we did like to think we left on Tuesday it was….drove up?
Rick: Yes.
Elara: We did two interviews on Thursday in Southern Oergan. Our actually one on Thursday when I forgot, anyway.
We did two up there a Thursday and Friday. We set up the booth on Friday night did the show on Saturday, Sunday did another interview on a Monday and then we flew out to Seattle on Tuesday and we had a friend drive our trailer back down.
So in addition to forward thinking, logistics and prior planning, planning is going to save a lot of money.
So make sure all your printing is done at home, make sure your graphics are done at home, make sure anything you have to give away in the booth is done ahead of time.
So you don’t have to make 52 runs to Staples.
Rick: Not that I’m trying to promote but, Southwest has been pretty good for the fact that when I do or when we do have to fly since two bags fly for free. That helps a lot when I’m carrying equipment not having to pay extra to check in, some of my equipment bags.
Elara: He’s got a big Pelican kit and a drone case and you know, then we have to have the it’s any gear you have it really really saves otherwise it’s what $75 a bag?
Rick: It’s about $50 per bag.
Elara: Yeah each way.
So I would definitely say, as much of that type of thing as you can do, you wouldn’t think it would cost that much. But, you know, if we took a flight every month last year and took an extra bag and went two ways, that’s $150 per round trip. So things like that is really, really helpful to think ahead
Rick: And look for airfare sales.
Elara: Yeah.
The next thing I would say is if you’re going to stay in hotels and things like that start a month or two out because they get really get expensive as you go forward. You know, you can save sometimes $100 a night by going two months out. And some of them will let you cancel closer to the start the start date.
So I would definitely say you have something like Southwest that’ll let you swap your tickets.
If you have something like refundable hotels, start way in advance and that way at least you’ve got the option. Find out if there’s people that are going to the same places that you go again, this networking at the fair thing is a great thing, we had a friend that was taking a wanted to take a trip from Seattle and drive down the coast.
So we went one way in the truck in the trailer, and he went the other. So that saved us, and allow me to get back to work two days earlier.
So use your resource pools as much as you can. And that includes things like if you feel comfortable sharing a hotel room, you just cut your cost in half. So that kind of things really important.
Brian: Fabulous. Those are all great tips.
So we talked a little bit about the events. We spoke briefly about your podcast about social media, you guys do a fair amount on social media.
Where else do you find new audiences that are there any other mediums or is it mainly a one on one thing?
Elara: The grocery store, (laughs), no, we’re not really shy people in general.
And like I said, we find life is an interesting place. So it’s not like I run down and attack people but you know, just keep your eyes open because you never know who you’re going to meet.
People are just fascinating when you start to talk to them, they’ve got such, like I said, 400 something years worth of stories we could do, because people are just interesting.
You never know who might say, oh, I’ve always wanted to know about that. And you have a business card.
Rick has been really good about that. He has business cards for our podcasts, and for our film company, and we just hand them out and say, yeah, follow us. You can’t be shy about saying that.
Rick: Yeah, I would say as you mentioned, Brian, we do have our social media accounts that we promote the film, our filmmaking and the podcasting and those ventures.
A lot of it’s word of mouth, but also being on a show like yours, that’s going to reach another wider audience for us. Just trying to get out there more and more in that avenue, whether it be another podcast, whether it be an article in a magazine.
Elara: It’s not like it used to be I don’t think it is where it, you know, it just used to be something that was very narrow in terms of your field. If you have a fitness club, you’re only going to have people that are into fitness that listen to you.
But that’s not true.
You know, you might have everybody be interested in fitness because everybody wants to stay in shape.
So in one way, shape or form, almost everybody is going to be interested in your fitness club. The same thing follows with something like this. This is food that we’re talking about. It’s also animals, its farming, its life, its culture, its people, its society.
You know, all of these things reflect who we are. And this happens to be a topic that everybody can relate to, if they eat, everybody can relate to, if they you know, if they came from other countries, you know, think about the demographic diversity that’s represented in a cow that comes from Spain.
That’s now American, the most American animal that many people think is an American Mustang. Well, that’s a Spanish horse.
That’s a mix of many different things.
So our relatable audience is extremely broad, but you have to be willing to find the things that relate in almost every single person. And it’s not this thing where it’s very, very, very narrow. So they’re finding that cross promotion among businesses is really important now, in ways that it did not used to be, you can find different areas that would not seem to relate previously, but are very definitely connected.
Commercial Break: Okay, we’re going to pause the conversation right there. What you’re listening to right now is a special edition podcast. These episodes all have to do with the Mother Earth News Fair in Albany, Oregon of 2019.
At the time I’m recording this, we have learned so much about how to take advantage of events and I want you to be able to use this information in your own business.
Go to BrianJPombo.com/secrets.
We are going to be putting out helpful materials on how you can use events to grow your business.
When you go to this page, you will either see our latest programs or if you make it there early enough, you will see an email address, capture page, put in your email address and we will be sure and update you. As soon as we get these out there, you’re not going to want to miss this.
If you get in early enough, you can get a special deal. These are principles that never go away. These programs will be based on the experience of people who have written books, spoken at the events or exhibited.
They’re talking about how to use events, books, and speaking all to build your business.
That’s BrianJPombo.com/secrets.
BrianJPombo.com/secrets and now back to the conversation.
Brian: Makes a lot of sense. So if we were to talk again, let’s say a year from now, we had you back on the podcast, what would have had to have happened over the last 12 months for you to feel happy with your progress concerning your organization?
Elara: Again, you’re asking a marital question.
Rick: First off, having the film out there is to me, the biggest thing,
Elara: Yes, my big thing too.
Rick: Because I feel like that will open up our audience a little bit more towards maybe wanting to listen to our podcast as well, going in maybe becoming more interested in heritage breeds and seeing some of our clips of interviews that we’ve put up on our YouTube channel.
And hopefully what I’m thinking with the film is that it’ll be able to venture off and be able to make another film that is continues the story of heritage breeds and of farmers in that vein, and that’s that’s to me what I hope to be coming back to you 12 months to tell you.
Elara: I think that my opinion was to be to get the film in the can and get it distributed.
I hope it comes together like we had hoped it would. My hope is also to, I gotta be honest, I really want to launch a series on this, I really would like to do it.
We have video footage, we have audio footage, we were not scared to talk to people. So we have all this great information. And the American farmer is in crisis right now.
So I would love to be able to get a wider audience and do segments of this that are not necessarily going to make it into the film where we talk about farming, we talk about food, we talk about people, we talk about diversity, we’re all kind of an amalgam of different cultures and different aspects.
And that I think there’s a broader picture right now in this country that’s being discussed about diversity.
I think the animals are a piece of it that really, really illustrates beautifully the strengths that can be brought to the fore by saying, Hey, what do each one of our individual strengths have to bring to us as a whole?
As a culture, my personal preference would be able to have something out there that does a series on this that talks about the different strengths of these animals, and why we’d have a stronger agricultural production system because of it. And why the people that farm it are stronger because of it.
For the average farmer. They’re just feisty, gritty people. They are wonderful people that they have backbones, and they are not scared of hard work.
I find it fascinating, the process by which they got there. And so it’s kind of a mirror of our animals and our migration. So I would say that and then my third thing, I love the podcast, I hope the podcast is successful.
Rick: 25.
So we’ve put out how many episodes now honey?
Elara: 25. So in a year, we hopefully would have how many more in the can we put them up every week.
52 (laughs), So yeah, I hope in a year we’d also have another 75 in the library.
Brian: So what are the obstacles standing in your way of getting all those things?
Rick: Well, besides finishing the film, and that’s not an obstacle, I mean, that’s just us getting the editing done, which we’re in post production on it right now.
I would say the obstacle is like with any artist or going back to farmer, being able to get your product out there, but get it to the people to the biggest obstacle is finding the audience.
Elara: Yeah, I think for me, just to get personal, that one of the big obstacles for me is maintaining the energy and the passion that you feel.
It’s, you know, it’s the same, but you’re in a business podcast. That’s one of the big difficulties with business as well. Maintaining the energy that you feel the excitement that you feel when you know something can be really, really great and Yet you have to deal with the everyday grind the everyday, you know, things that come up in business, the challenges.
So for instance, I love traveling with my husband.
I have a friend that laughed at us say, how can you stand being in a car with him for eight hours?
What is there to talk about?
And you know, sometimes we go across the country, and we don’t even turn on the radio because we’re busy looking at things and looking up things and talking and but sometimes when you travel, when you start to travel quite a bit, you get tired. I mean, it’s an exhausting thing.
People that have trade shows deal with the same kind of thing. So one of the big challenges for me is maintaining that excitement that I get every time I learned something new.
And every time I look at the film, and Rick has put together a trailer for me, he’s got two of them he’s we’ve got one for the film that’s a little more serious one.
And then he’s got one that he mixed for me that’s sort of like a I think it was at the time when when the little Lord of the Rings was coming out or something I said, make me an exciting trailer.
It’s got the globe spinning. And it just it’s just kind of a fun one that he put together. And every time I watch that, I just could jump. I’m so happy, I just get that excitement back.
So finding that way to maintain that excitement is it has not been a difficult thing. But I can see 20 years from now you still want to get that urge to jump. But when you find a concept that’s exciting. I hope we maintain that I think we have so far.
Brian: What question Did I not ask that you’d like to answer?
Rick: I know Elara has a lot to talk about.
Elara: Oh, I always do this not never a problem for me.
Okay, well, so, I would like to ask you do a business podcast, correct?
Brian: Yes.
Elara: So if you had to describe your podcast, how would you describe it?
Brian: Our podcast is mainly for business owners and executives and the self reliance field meaning that they have products, services, or a story behind them that promote self reliance and others. And our conversations are all to promote both business owners, people that run organizations and experts in the field of self reliance to help encourage, give practical tips and so forth all regarding business.
Elara: Okay, so that fits beautifully with the topics that we’ve been discussing over the last three years that people that we’ve been interviewing. We’ve been to the far east of the United States.
We’ve been to the west, we’ve been to the north and the south. We’ve been to British Columbia Islands in salt spring Island. We have been to the middle of the country. We’ve been to all spots.
We talked to scientists, we’ve talked to farmers, we talked to marketing people, your podcast has people that are dealing with the same issues.
I think it’s really important for everybody that’s listening to know that they are not alone.
That business and self reliance is a new frontier. Farming is an old frontier, but it is might as well be new. You know, I mean, there are so many changes.
There’s people doing farming with drones. Now there are people farming with satellites, now. It’s a whole different world. And I’m sure it gets extremely frustrating to some people to say, How do I keep up?
But I think that I would want to say that I hope they know they’re not alone. Everybody’s going through this. And that’s the one thing that we’ve learned from all the people we’ve spoken with.
They are not alone. And so in that they are part of a group. They’re there together, they’re greater than the sum of their parts.
Rick: This doesn’t pertain so much to our business.
But I would say with most of the people we’ve interviewed for them social media has been a big thing, because it has been able to I know a lot of people, not social media, but in the realm of farmers, and people that are way out in areas where there’s not a lot of population.
It has brought them closer together, and they are able to connect with people that are doing some of the similar things that they’re doing on their farm. And they get to ask them questions.
Hey, have you ever ran into this when you’ve been raising Jacob sheep, it’s a resource, it’s become a resource.
So I don’t know if this is out of left field. Maybe it is a little bit but I would say that I would like to bring up that not all social media is negative. It gets a lot of negative press.
But it can be a great, helpful communication tool and resource for people and most of the farmers that we’ve gone out there and interviewed love that fact because it allows them to stay connected to people doing the similar thing, that they are doing.
Elara: That’s one thing that Rick is really taught me that some of these things are necessary whether you’re comfortable with them or not, whether you say, Well, I was never on social media, any kind of social media, and now I am on the podcast is the host and I have pictures of myself on our Instagram accounts, our Facebook and all of that kind of thing.
But I think that in today’s age, it is absolutely necessary to have a social media presence.
And if you’re not comfortable doing it yourself, see if you can get help doing it. It’s like anything else.
You don’t necessarily feel comfortable doing your whole tax return yourself. So you find a CPA, that’ll do it. It’s the same thing with social media. We have a great gal that does a lot of posting for us.
And Rick does a lot of posting for us, but our social media gal helps us in this. It’s a resource.
It’s really, really important. And frankly, you know, Rick is got about four hats he’s wearing and I’ve got about four Hats I’m wearing and we’re doing travel planning and logistics and scheduling and interviewing and research all of this, you can’t do everything.
If you can get help, and you can swing it, put it in the budget as a line item, because it’s really, really important in today’s market to have a social media presence, and it can be helpful.
It really, really can be a good resource.
Brian: Wow, those are really great points. Really appreciate the time you guys have spent with us.
What could a listener do?
Who’s interested in finding out more about backyard green films about the agriculture podcast and everything else that you guys are doing? Where would you direct them?
Rick: Well, I would direct them to our website, backyardgreenfilms.com on there. It has a link to our agriculture podcast has the trailer up there for our upcoming film tells us a little bit about what Elara and I are doing.
I would also tell people if they want to see some of our video clips little pieces that we’ve put together to go to our YouTube channel, which is also Backyard Green Films. And those are the two biggest places that you can find us. And then of course on Instagram, and Facebook, we’re there under Backyard Green Films as well.
Elara: Yeah, if you’d like to see pictures, it’s really nice. Because podcasting has become a big focus for us, as we talked about the heritage breed animals and yet these animals are really really different looking sometimes that the YouTube channel is kind of a neat thing because because Rick’s put some of our more interesting animals up there and you can see them visually.
You look at a Jacob sheep, for example, it looks like something off of the San Diego Wild Animal Park the planes out there. It’s got four horns and spots. It’s crazy looking animal. But it’s really neat.
We’ve lost that ability to look at some of these things and say, Wow, that’s a different looking animal. So yeah, I would send people to the YouTube channel for some, some visuals because some of these animals are just really interesting looking at.
Brian: Well that’s fabulous. Thank you so much. This has been an absolute delight and so much depth into what you’re talking about. We’ll definitely have you guys come back again, and be able to delve in a little deeper on some of these subjects because there’s so much meat there on the bone.
Rick and Elara Bowman thanks so much for being on the Off The Grid Biz Podcast.
Rick and Elara: Brian, thank you for having us. And I’m really appreciate you taking the time to talk with us today.
Brian’s Closing Thoughts: Okay, so that was part of our two part series, all about Backyard Green Films. Second part, they’re dealing a lot with the fundamental shift in the ways that we’re doing business now as opposed to the old days.
I think that’s really great stuff.
I fact that you really have to be flexible and agile for success, and be willing to move where you need to move to do what you need to do. I mean, their life is a perfect example of that.
In this part of the conversation, they’ve spent more time talking about going to expos going to events.
What are your short term goals?
So a lot of their short term goals are meeting people and having conversations that they can add on to their projects, but also their long term goals, the relationships they’re looking to make over the long term.
Rick’s point, again, is on finding that core audience, really finding the people that are going to fit most with the material that he’s coming out with. Also, they’re bringing up that practical end of really keeping things organized, having really forward thinking logistics, and planning things out as best as possible. You keep from getting caught into a trap, either financially or otherwise.
And that’s really important that they mentioned how Southwest Airlines has been really helpful for traveling with their equipment that type of practical advice and ways of thinking about how to get from one place to another is really important.
Another thing they brought up is the concept of maintaining your energy for your business and keeping the passion going for what you’re doing that’s very, very important of watching out for those things that are going to drain you of your time and your energy, great points about networking.
Rick talking about social media was really important and how it’s this communication tool. And this ability to network with others that allow the small guys to be able to do things that the big guys can’t do.
That’s a very common theme that we found with a lot of the people that we talked to from the other news fairs, is finding a way to go beyond where the big guys are going. I think that type of positive attitude is the reason why have been so successful and while they’ll continue to be successful, and finally, I love when
They mentioned about getting the help you need to get your business to function in the areas that you just don’t want to do or you’re not good at. That’s so important.
And something that gets ignored so often or put off for too long is the necessity of delegating your weaknesses. It doesn’t mean hiring somebody necessarily. It doesn’t necessarily mean having somebody that’s an employee, it could be paying someone to do something short term sometimes it can be bartering, service for service or product or service or what have you.
These are all really important points and so many other great things that they brought up during this whole conversation. Like I said, this was part two, be sure and listen to part one.
Outro: Join us again on the next Off The Grid Biz Podcast brought to you by the team at BrianJPombo.com, helping successful but overworked entrepreneurs, transform their companies into dream assets.
That’s BrianJPombo.com.
If you or someone you know would like to be a guest on The Off The Grid Biz Podcast, offthegridbiz.com/contact. Those who appear on the show do not necessarily endorse my beliefs, suggestions, or advice or any of the services provided by our sponsor.
Our theme music is Cold Sun by Dell. Our executive producer and head researcher is Sean E Douglas.
I’m Brian Pombo and until next time, I wish you peace, freedom, and success.